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> Watchers and Searching, and why they can't... apparently.
Feshy
post Feb 2 2006, 03:24 AM
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I think there is something that either I, or my book, is missing.

The search power uses ta magic + intuition test -- threshold 5, interval 10 minutes.

Watchers are used mostly for their search power.

Watchers, being spirits, use force for those attributes.

Watchers have a force of 1.

This gives watchers a search pool of 2.

Extended tests are limited to a number of rolls equal to the size of the pool.

Watchers can, therefore, roll a maximum of 4 dice -- in an attempt to get 5 hits + modifiers.

Am I missing something, or do watchers automatically fail when searching?
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FrankTrollman
post Feb 2 2006, 03:32 AM
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Watchers come in packs, and using the Teamwork rules they can indeed succeed at a Search test.

One Watcher can't accomplish much of anything. But you weren't planning on sending one were you?

-Frank
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Cold-Dragon
post Feb 2 2006, 06:29 AM
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Good observation, Fesh.

Good counter-observation, Frank.

You could also buff the watcher spirit itself too, couldn't you? go perceptive, make one of the most beneficial stat buffs around, etc, lol.

How intelligent/smart is a watcher spirit with a logic or intuition of 5+? lol...
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mintcar
post Feb 2 2006, 07:33 AM
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They can accomplish easy searches (with positive modifiers). They can deliver messages and they can annoy people. Thats about it. And it's what was intended with them in the first place. If you want to get something important done, don't send a sodding watcher :) . There are other spirits with the search power. If watchers were search experts, there wouldn't be any reason to summon a real spirit for that job.
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 2 2006, 02:50 PM
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I think mintcar´s right, you´d only send a watcher to deliver a massage, if you´d know the aproximate location of the target. i.e. "go to my place and tell my boyfriend he sucks and should better be gone before me and my predator return (over and over, as loud as possible), because I saw the vid with him and that bitch from the drycleaner!"
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Ophis
post Feb 2 2006, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (MK Ultra)
I think mintcar´s right, you´d only send a watcher to deliver a massage, if you´d know the aproximate location of the target. i.e. "go to my place and tell my boyfriend he sucks and should better be gone before me and my predator return (over and over, as loud as possible), because I saw the vid with him and that bitch from the drycleaner!"

nah watchers are crap at massage...
don't have the skill...

Sorry couldn't resist.
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 2 2006, 03:43 PM
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:D I allso thought about a joke, how whatchers could not massage anybody, since they can not materialize...
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Just Pete
post Feb 2 2006, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE
Extended tests are limited to a number of rolls equal to the size of the pool.


I just re-read the section on extended tests, and saw that this is only a suggestion - not a hard limit. The relevant text:

QUOTE
Though it may seem that characters are guaranteed of success
in an Extended Test over time, that is not always the case.
The character may have a limited timeframe in which to accomplish
the task, so she may run out of time before she finishes the
job. The gamemaster can also limit the number of rolls under
the assumption that if the character can’t finish it with a certain
amount of effort, she simply doesn’t have the skills to complete
it. A good limit is to allow a maximum number of rolls equal
to the character’s dice pool (so a character rolling 6 dice has 6
attempts to get it done)


To me, the relevant portion, at least for watcher searching, is the reference to a "certain amount of effort". For a watcher, with it's dog-brain intellect, effort isn't really a factor in a search - it would just keep going until it found what it's looking for, or ran out of time.
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BlackHat
post Feb 2 2006, 03:48 PM
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Wouldn't that imply that, short of glitching, a watcher spirit could never fail a search either?
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 2 2006, 03:56 PM
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Short of glitching... with two dice. ;)
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 2 2006, 04:05 PM
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Guests
short of glithes and running out of time :)

Edit: and encounters with miscevious denizens of the astral plane :D
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Azralon
post Feb 2 2006, 04:09 PM
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Meh. So far the best function for watchers that I've seen is the "friends in melee" bonus a handful of them would give in astral combat.

Well, that and your basic expendable distractions.
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Serbitar
post Feb 2 2006, 04:18 PM
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http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=9669
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stevebugge
post Feb 2 2006, 04:28 PM
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Creative uses for watchers:

Watchers can Manifest.
Watchers can Astrally Percieve

Therefore Watchers can be used as target designators against invisible enemies.

(no kidding this happened in our game last night, under attack by Invisible enemies the mage sends a watcher to go perch on the shoulder of an invisible enemy, tells it to manifest so the Sammie can have a better chance to gun down said invisible assailant)
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Feshy
post Feb 2 2006, 05:29 PM
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Thanks for the link Serbitar. That post was started a few days before I existed here :P

I find I agree with Chandon's take on it:
QUOTE

Rules should be at least vaguely consistant, and in this case
A.) Any spirit can find anyone anywhere given no cap on the extended test.
B.) Given any of the limiting options, a force 4 spirit can find anyone within 50 miles
but a watcher can never find anyone.

Since finding stuff is one of the signature abilities of watchers BUT letting random spirits always be able to find anyone isn't a good thing, and given that with the guidlines about limiting extended tests it's impossible to solve both of these without being inconsitant, it'd be best to think about what the (nessisary) house rule would be before the situation came up.


So... Uh... house rule time again I guess.
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DireRadiant
post Feb 2 2006, 05:34 PM
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With two dice and a threshold 5+ a watcher is simply going to glitch a lot in a search. The odds are it will glitch usually before finding anyone, so in a way this is simply self limitiing. But a lot of dice rolls
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mintcar
post Feb 2 2006, 05:59 PM
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I repeat that I think it's perfectly fine that watchers are lousy at everything. It only means you have to give good instructions of were to look if you want them to find something, for instance.

They are extremely useful anyway. They just can't do anything well. Any task that doesn't require a skill test can be left to a watcher. In case you've forgotten, that's a lot of things. You can always have one around or wip one up without any effort. As I said before, if you want something done proper; why not take the time to summon a force 3+ spirit?
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 2 2006, 07:01 PM
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Uhm, cuz watchers are cute? :|
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Angelstandings
post Feb 2 2006, 10:58 PM
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The first time I ever read about Watchers being used was in a novel years ago...

The magician made a buttload of them, put them into a magical net of somekind, and released them all at once as a distraction. They basically went zooming around like idiots.

Not sure I'd trust one to do anything remotely difficult.
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Guest_MK Ultra_*
post Feb 3 2006, 12:09 AM
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Guests
Twist knocks on the astral barier.
Watcher apears: "Who?"
Twist: "I want to talk to Sean Laverthy."
Watcher: "Who?"
T: "Laverthy, I must speak with him!"
W: "Who?"
Twist loses temper and hits Watcher.
Watcher zooms away screaming... :D
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Darkness
post Feb 3 2006, 12:39 AM
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QUOTE (Angelstandings)
The first time I ever read about Watchers being used was in a novel years ago...

The magician made a buttload of them, put them into a magical net of somekind, and released them all at once as a distraction. They basically went zooming around like idiots.

Not sure I'd trust one to do anything remotely difficult.

If i recall correctly that's in Burning Bright. Kyle Teller is using them as a distraction while they enter the main hive.
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