 How to kill drones? |
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 Feb 9 2006, 03:08 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 20-February 04 From: in the matrix Member No.: 6,091  |
Drones seem to be brutal in SR4. What is your favorite way to kill one? Take the Doberman or the rotorcraft as example targets. I am just curious what all the DMs (and players) favorite methods are. |
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Feb 9 2006, 03:43 AM
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#2
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Drones aren't that bad in SR4. A pred can bring down a Doberman with regular ammo. Then there are stick'n shock rounds which stun them.
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Feb 9 2006, 04:06 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 12-April 04 From: Lacey, Washington Member No.: 6,237 |
EX Explosive ammunition. Guarantees effects against even the Steel Lynx drone as long as you use a Submachine Gun or heavier weapon. Long, narrow bursts (Roughly 13 to 14 DV) of this ammunition will overload most drones - despite their hefty armor protection most drones have a substandard Body (for a vehicle) so their damage track isn't overly long. Shotguns for EX Explosive should be able to handle a Doberman in two hits. Hacking them is the more subtle approach, of course :grinbig:
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Feb 9 2006, 04:09 AM
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#4
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Indeed. killing one drone is not much harder than killing one of anything else. Hardened Armor is pretty much a joke in SR4 (until it suddenly becomes Uber and Unstoppable about Armor 14).
The problem of course, is that a doberman is on par with a competent normal in toughness, about as well armed as anything, and comes in packs of 3+ on a single Rigger. That's where it gets ugly. Killing a drone isn't a big problem. Not getting killed by the drones is. A rigger rolls more dice firing a LMG off his drone than a street sam rolls firing an assault rifle. Balance steps in when the street samurai can go a lot of places armed with a holdout pistol or monowhip that a doberman isn't allowed at all. -Frank |
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Feb 9 2006, 04:32 AM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Heh, I'm just used to SR3 where it took an act of God to injure a drone with small arms fire.
Packs of drones are all well and good, but #1 drones aren't great shots when not under direct control and #2 you can only control one at a time (and it sucks when they get shot). How do you count the drone > street sam thing, Frank? Seems about equal to me (ignoring sensors, which take a pass to use). EDIT: Revised position. Best way to take care of a drone is a force 5 (or even higher) fire spirit. A base 9 DV of fire damage on a melee hit is going to go a long way toward a dead drone. |
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Feb 9 2006, 05:03 AM
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#6
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
A rigger in the hot seat has the same dice pool as the street sam except: * The rigger only needs to raise one skill (gunnery), no matter what kind of weapons she uses. * The rigger gets +2 dice from a Control Rig. Everything else is the same. Therefore, the rigger is a better shot in VR than the street sam is in the real world. -Frank |
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Feb 9 2006, 05:07 AM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Lightning / Electricity Spells if you have the luxury of a mage
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Feb 9 2006, 05:33 AM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
I don't see anything that leads me to believe you can use a smartlink on a gun in a drone, so that should equal out. |
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Feb 9 2006, 06:17 AM
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#9
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
What? Since a smart-link is by default a wirelessly accessible device, the burden of proof goes the other way. Why wouldn't you be able to use a smartlink when rigged into the gun? You are still affected by everything else on that chart, you still get minuses for poor visibility, recoil, or long range. What possible reason would you have for claiming that the +2 bonus for using a smart link does not apply? -Frank |
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Feb 9 2006, 06:22 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 5-January 05 From: Wherever this piece of meat rests. Member No.: 6,937 |
The game I run has a pretty decent hacker, and with the rules for hacking a rigged drone much easier (and streamlined), your hacker has a pretty decent chance of making a bad day for the rigger/drone pilot. Not to say that there isn't ways to make it tougher, but it is possible, and can be done from a distance if you have good intel.
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen: |
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Feb 9 2006, 06:47 AM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Well, you have to utilize a smartlink system to get the bonus. As it is an eye system, that kind of makes it hard to use while in full VR. |
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Feb 9 2006, 06:49 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Drone sensors can include sensors. Said sensors can include cameras. Said cameras can include smartlinks.
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Feb 9 2006, 06:53 AM
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#13
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Is that mentioned somewhere? As there is a whole section on sensor enhanced gunnery, one would think you use those rules instead. |
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Feb 9 2006, 07:57 AM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Yes there is, see SENSORS on page 325 and read the Camera description as it can have vision enhancements from page 323. Since the character is rigged into the vehicle and basically becomes the vehicle and uses it’s shell as a body it stands to reason that if the sensors have been improved with microphone, camera and other upgrades it is usable by the rigger. A regular sensor without upgrades is probably just a radar so that you target a blip on a screen. With upgrades including cameras you get to use more of your senses, including “eyes” in cameras and smartlink upgrades. |
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Feb 9 2006, 09:17 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
So, you are arguing that you can use Smartlink in drones? - As in, the drone gets +2 dice when operating alone, in addition to targeting software and Pilot?
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Feb 9 2006, 10:40 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 30-September 04 Member No.: 6,715 |
While not all things continue over from SR3, you can install a smart link system in a drone using 3rd edition rules. |
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Feb 9 2006, 11:49 AM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Targetting software is more like Skill+Attribute instead of Autosoft+Pilot, Smartlink would add modifiers to the pool and give more advanced targetting software then the basic "point-n-shoot" Autosoft. Since most pilots don't have more than pilot rating of 3 it would be a maximum of 8D6. |
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Feb 9 2006, 12:01 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Well, the sensors listing on p 325 aren't the same as the sensor package drones come with. I don't think you can make that connection within the SR4 rules. You can't even assume that sensor systems include a camera (unlike SR3). As a GM with knowledge of SR3, I'd assume that there is a camera involved (thus the rules for normal perception tests using drones) and since in SR4 the smartlink is now entirely an image compositing device, it seems at least somewhat logical that a human gunner could benefit from it. However, the logic then follows that a drone not using sensor assited targeting should get the same benefit and that just feels wrong. What seems most fair is to restrict drones to using their sensors to get bonus dice on ranged tests. What bothers me is that shooting someone with a drone that you're jumped into is an Agility based test. I mean, on what level does that makes sense. |
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Feb 9 2006, 12:26 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
How do you come to that conclusion? Sensor packages on page 325 clearly states what kind of sensor packages drones have depending on size. That’s the standard sensors without any bells and whistles connected to their sensors, those options cost extra. I find it fairly logical that one can (and must pay for it) upgrade the sensors of a drone. |
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Feb 9 2006, 01:37 PM
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#20
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Actually, you're right. I missed the bit in the text about drone sensors being part of that. So it's possible to give a drone a camera, image link, and smartlink. Interesting.
You can really blow a lot of cash on drones. |
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Feb 9 2006, 01:40 PM
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#21
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
If the Drone has additional sensors installed, such as the sensor gear from page 325, this includes Cameras, which include the vision enhancements from P 323, which includes a smartlink. If the additional camera is installed, and it has the smartlink included as an enhancement, then I think both the drone pilot and a jumped in rigger would get the benefit of using the smartlink. This assumes the mounted weapon is also smartlink enabled. Note that this is not the base sensor suite of the drone, but added sensor equipment.
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Feb 9 2006, 01:44 PM
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#22
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Oh yeah... Just to start with: Sensor suite can run 3k Weapon mount 2.5 K Pilot 4 = 10 k At some point the base price is a tiny fraction of your sunk costs. |
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Feb 9 2006, 01:51 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
What's really weird is that the doberman apparently comes with a weapon (up to a 2k value). At least, that's what the text indicates.
Your best shot at cost savings is to crack the encryption on your autosofts and pilot program so you can get away with just buying them once. |
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Feb 9 2006, 03:09 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Note that drones can't take Stun damage. They can be briefly disabled via the "tazering" effect, but no actual Stun. |
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Feb 9 2006, 03:15 PM
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#25
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
That's what I meant. "cease to function" is the exact text. |
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