How do you have players raise stats, stats and skills... Options

[Cang]

I have a hard time just letting my chars get the next step in a stat in skill without some reason to it, especially when they go from a 2 to a 4 in two games. That is a major progression that i have a hard time believing that anyone could do that. Mental stats are the worst for this, because i can't just make them go to the gym. How do you all keep raising stats in your games reasonable, fair, and in character?

[Oracle]

In my group that's one of the things that are left abstract and strictly canon.

[Ryu]

The same goes for us, so the standards vary between players.

[hyzmarca]

Instructasofts.

Get Smart for Dummies, Gillmore's Introduction to Public Speaking Fifth Edition, and I Think Therefore I Can together with nanopase 'trodes provide all you need to increase mental stats.


Yes, I vote abstract, too.

[Backgammon]

In previous campaing I was a real nazi about upgrades. The characters needed to spend MONTHS learning skills or upgrading. Recently though, I realised the timeframe did not jive with my game timeframes as I usually do storylines where something happens everyday or just about. So I just let them spend karma without the training time, though I usually apply some sort of metagaming rule such as "you may raise 1 skill or 1 attribute for next mission" or "you can spend up to 5 karma today", stuff like that.

[Aku]

for the record, in SR4, i think that's the "suggested" route, raising one skill or stat by one point, or learning one new skill.... or maybe it was just that on any stat or skill, you can only raise it one point...

[Cang]

one thing i used to do in 3rd ed. is if you want to raise a skill, you have to use it successfully the number you want to raise it to. So you want to raise con from a 3 to a 4, you have to use con 4 times successfully before you are allowed to raise it. It is the concept of practice makes perfect. :cyber:

[imperialus]

for the most part we just hand wave it. When the GM asks what we are up to during downtime we might say. "Oh, I'm going down to the "shoot'n smoke" and paying the desert wars vet that runs the place 50 :nuyen: to give me a few pointers on how to handle my gun.... Oh and my pistols skill goes up from 3 to 4." If we're feeling less verbose or running short of time we might just say "I raise my pistols from 3 to 4".

[MrMiracle]

My opinion varies from Attribute to Attribute. My general rule is that no attribute can be increased more than 1 or 2 times in a character's lifetime. If a character chooses an attribute at 1 for a starting adult character, that's not just neglect, that may very well be a genetic deficiency. A Bod of 1 suggests a very weak bone structure, one that couldn't possibly support much more added bulk. An Agility or Reaction of 1 may be from neurological problems, ones that can't be overcome except by advanced medicine or cyberware. A Cha 1 player may not have a head 'wired' for social cues.

If a player chooses an attribute of 1 for a starting adult character, I only allow 1 increase over the lifetime of the character. For 2 and above, 2 increases. Attribute problems can be overcome by high skills and cyberware, after all.

[Moon-Hawk]

IIRC, there was a rule in SR2 that attributes could only be raised 1 point in a character's lifetime.

[Darkness]

[Azralon]

[jklst14]

[emo samurai]

That... that's really fucking slow character progression.

[Cold-Dragon]

[Ryu]

Thats 2-5 karma per session I hope. We get 3-5, and even that feels slow sometimes.

I don´t see a need for limiting attribute increases. The karma cost is high enough. Chars who where allowed to start with an attribute of 1 will generally not desire to maximise said attribute (she who allows PG characters should also allow PG advancement plans)

[SL James]

[Glyph]

You are correct, it was SR1. It would be even more crippling in SR4, though, with its spending cap on starting Attributes.

[emo samurai]

Why aren't karma handouts bigger? I hope that the 3-5 only includes group karma, and personal karma for heroism, intelligence, and funniness can go up to 6-7. Otherwise, I'd shoot the GM and then myself for having wasted so much time. And SL, where does Critias say that about the debates being meaningless? That seems uncharacteristic to the point of being apocalyptic.

[Adam]

[Ryu]

Echo that. Our karma quota was never a point of discussion, as about 20 Karma per real-time month does give enough room to see a character grow, and the basic needs are covered at chargen.

@emo samurai: No. Role-playing and funnies are already included in 3-5 per session. We play once per week, it is sufficient.

[Endgame50]

My group tends to just give out flat karma awards--that is, we don't do individualized merit karma awards for RPing or funnies for the PCs. If they group as a whole RPed well, that's cool, bonus for the group. But everyone gets the same karma.

The reasoning is basically those awards are highly subjective, and lead to alot of GM favoritism, even if unintentional. If someone is RPing their quiet and efficent guy well but the face is hogging all the attention, he might very well get overlooked in terms of good RPing. I realize it can and does work great for alot of groups, but I've found it reduces hard feelings to just give equal karma.

[BlackHat]

Not to mention, it maintains some illusion of balance between the characters. ;-)

[emo samurai]

If people die, do they get a new character with the party's average karma?

[Endgame50]

by the rules, no.

When I run, I tend to match up incoming PCs to the lowest PCs karma.

Many GMs tend to just have them come in with no karma. Either way works, it's a matter of preference.