 Spiritual Problems, problems...with spirits |
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 Feb 14 2006, 11:59 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496  |
My group is composed of a hacker/rigger, a gunbunny adept, a troll adept, a hacker/gunbunny, and a face/mage.
The problem we have is neither of our adepts has astral perception and our mage thinks dodge is an astral combat skill. He has, as far as I know, no attack methods at all. I know magicians are rare and will only actually guard the best secured areas, but that doesn't stop places from buying spirits to guard their areas. We can take care of a manifested spirit, but if they have a watcher that goes off to tip off the security, all our sneakiness will do us no good. Short of lacing our adept's food with deepweed, I'm at a loss when it comes to dealing with them on their home turf. Does anyone have any suggestions? |
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Feb 15 2006, 12:07 AM
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#2
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Detect Magic spell will let you know when there's a spirit around. The mage can also throw mana-based spells at the spirit by switching to astral perception.
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Feb 15 2006, 12:17 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Good ideas...
except our mage is pretty useless as far as combat goes. No combat spells, no astral combat. |
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Feb 15 2006, 12:27 AM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
conjure bigger spirits. the kind that have concealment as a power.
if your mage doesn't have any conjuring skills, then i recommend you tell him he's an idiot. alternatively, you could try getting him a weapon focus... assuming he has some kind of melee skill. which, based on what you've said so far, i'm beginning to doubt. |
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Feb 15 2006, 12:54 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
I'm gonna have to go with Jaid on this, get spirits for concealment, or to combat the other spirits.
Though deepweeding your adept would be pretty ingenious way around it. |
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Feb 15 2006, 03:32 AM
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#6
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Mid-size spirits are actually pretty non-resistant to firearms. And while that won't keep spirits who camp the astral plane from triggering alarms, killing a spirit won't solve that problem either (dropping a spirit notifies the conjurer, who can pull the alarm his own self).
A force 4 spirit has 8 points of armor and a body of 4, so basically it's just a goon with an armored jacket - nothing special really. It's only with the larger spirits that mundanes are in trouble. But of course binding a Force 5+ spirit is a life-ending proposition for even Great Dragons, so you're unlikely to see many running around as security. My suggestion: Wait for spirits to materialize, then have your gun-bunny blow their faces off. Edit: You don't need Detect Magic to know spirits are around. The threshold of the perception test to notice a spirit fooling around on the astral is only 6 - Force. Any spirit which even counts as "slightly difficult" for the gun-bunny to disrupt is by definition going to stick out like a sore thumb to your physical senses. -Frank |
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Feb 15 2006, 04:16 AM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Oh, what page is this on? Handy to know. |
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Feb 15 2006, 04:38 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
And with a taser, it's only 4 points of hardened armor. Stick and shock ammo can damage even a force 6 spirit if it hits (since you need 1 net success to hit). Not necessarily well, but it's a darn sight better than standing there doing nothing. I didn't consider the facet of the summoner realizing when his spirit gets blown away. I suppose if there was a mage hired to leave a spirit there, he may or may not report if one of his spirits got gacked (his job is only to summon and bind it there--whether he'll waste his precious time later on depends on his contract and how much he's paid, I'm sure). But it's probably best to consider that there's always the chance he will notify someone, or there could be an on site mage. Ah well. I suppose even spirits can't be everywhere at once. |
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Feb 15 2006, 07:10 AM
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#9
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Why do you say that? Drain should be simple enough to handle. Most boes the spirit can give out for binding is ten. With a Will and logic of 5, that gives am average of appx 3 successes, which is only 7 boxes of damage, and most likely stun at that. And Force 5 can't stand up to that much magic. Even a Force 10 spirit goes down pretty fast from a manabolt (although it'll probably go first). |
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Feb 15 2006, 07:16 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
The most boxes a force 5 spirit can give out for binding is 20.
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Feb 15 2006, 07:17 AM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
They roll 10 dice against about 30; there's no contest, even if they both use Edge. |
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Feb 15 2006, 08:02 AM
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#12
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Isn't it double their force that they roll against binding? or are you including Edge? Even so, that would be 15 dice. If you reroll failures, you couldn't have 20 sucesses, as it's only the failures that are rerolled. The exploding dice can give you more, but as I understood it, although it's debated, the spirit doesn't get Edge to resist binding. What am I missing? |
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Feb 15 2006, 08:33 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
As an aside, a spirit bound for remote service (for example, to guard / warn guards of intruders) at a site doesn't count as bound any more, so the conjurer wouldn't know if it was disrupted... but alas, no one in their right mind would bind a watcher, even if you could.
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Feb 15 2006, 10:10 AM
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#14
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I'm afraid that's no longer the case. According to pg 178, bound spirits (as opposed to conjured ones) aren't released when assigned to Remote Service or sent out on loan. So, if a mage tells them to guard a site for the next twenty years, they have to do so, and count as bound for the whole time. |
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Feb 15 2006, 10:35 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Ah, I see. Nasty stuff. |
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Feb 15 2006, 03:14 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
It costs 5 karma and a few hundred nuyen to buy a combat spell. What is he, a Pussy shaman? ... Er, Cat. I meant Cat. |
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Feb 15 2006, 03:17 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Well, he's playing a frenchman with combat paralysis and ineptitude in several things combat related. He's decided to run with the stereotype, it seems. |
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Feb 15 2006, 04:37 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
They double their force to resist binding, and the Drain is 2 per hit on the binding resistance test. So before they add in Edge (which could of course provide unlimited Drain), a spirit can potentially generate four times its Force in Drain when being bound. So the chances of dropping Lofwyr with failed binding are very small, they are nonetheless there, and he presumably has lived thousands of years by not taking chances like that. -Frank |
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Feb 15 2006, 05:05 PM
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#19
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Your team's mage sounds useless. Geek him and get another.
I mean, seriously. If a mage does nothing else, they should be able to banish spirits and counterspell other mages. Magic is powerful, which is why you level the playing field with magic on your team. |
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Feb 15 2006, 05:28 PM
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#20
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
What an interesting RPing choice for a mage.
Now RP him actually growing a pair, put some skill into banishing and counterspelling, and buy off combat paralysis. (not necessarily in that order) This character can be non-combat oriented, pacifistic even, without being useless defensively. There are many ways to contribute to combat without being the attacker. I'm all for people who want to RP something different and challenging, but do your fellow players a favor and give them an in-game reason to keep your character around, without resorting to metagaming: "Uh, we hang out with him and trust our lives to him, and give him an equal share of our income because it's Jim's character" If this mage is this useless in combat, he's better be un-freakin'-believable in some other area to be worth keeping around. note: The Jim in this example is purely fictitious. Any resemblance to any Jim's, living or dead, was purely coincidental. |
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Feb 15 2006, 05:36 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 26-January 06 Member No.: 8,201 |
out of idle curiosity did he grab 'Surendering' as a specialization for Etiquette? 'Surrender' for a specialization for Negotiation? 'away from the germans' as a specialization for Running? Sorry couldn't resist asking... |
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Feb 15 2006, 06:08 PM
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#22
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Running, running, running Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,220 Joined: 18-October 04 From: North Carolina Member No.: 6,769 |
:rotfl: i wonder if that would be as funny w/o the codine... |
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Feb 15 2006, 07:22 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
I don't think the player of our mage reads DSF. I'm the gun toting hacker of the group. But yeah, "Jim syndrome" is not uncommon in my gaming group. |
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Feb 15 2006, 07:31 PM
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#24
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I had a player once that consistently made characters that the rest of the group had to bend over backwards trying to justify keeping around.
My solution was to request that their next character's background be in the form of a Shadowrunner's resume. It actually worked. :eek: |
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Feb 16 2006, 06:33 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Well, the good news is we got him to take stunbolt. The bad news is he ditched us as soon as things got hairy in the astral, so now we have a swarm of spirits heading towards us and our astral overwatch just abandoned us. That frenchman is so dead if my PC lives through this.
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