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> Datajacks with ASIST Converter, Display and Image Links obsolete?
Cray74
post Oct 5 2003, 02:46 PM
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On page 19 of Man & Machine, there is an option for Datajacks: the ASIST converter. This lets the datajack translate raw simsense signals from the Matrix and whatnot.

Can this also supply visual (and other) simsense signals from other sources, like to replace the display portion of a Smartlink or to replay video from a slotted chip or something? i.e., can it do the job of an Image Link and subdermal speakers?
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Ancient History
post Oct 5 2003, 03:10 PM
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An ASIST means you can process simsense signals, not video or audio data (there's a difference).
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TheScamp
post Oct 5 2003, 03:13 PM
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Also, Simsense data is rather overwhelming; it doesn't simply overlay your field of view, it pretty much becomes your vield of view. You can technically see past the data and through your regular eyes, but at a major penalty, so its usefulness as a display link substitute is somewhat lacking.
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Cray74
post Oct 5 2003, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
An ASIST means you can process simsense signals, not video or audio data (there's a difference).

So a simsense signal from the eyes and ears of a simsense movie actor in the simsense movie you're watching, though they are visual and audio data, are not visual and audio data?

Do you have a rules or book reference showing that an ASIST interface cannot be used to play back plain video and/or audio? It would seem that ASIST, the breakthrough for machine-brain interfacing, is found in limited forms in the Image Link, Transducer, Smartlink, and other cybernetic means of modifying your sensory data.

Deckers that get into a slave node controlling security cameras can look at the video and audio signals from those cameras in virtual windows, right?

QUOTE (TheScamp)
Also, Simsense data is rather overwhelming; it doesn't simply overlay your field of view, it pretty much becomes your vield of view


That's fine, for the most part. If I was playing back a video clip or writing a report on my wrist computer on a long flight, I wouldn't mind my visual and auditory perceptions dominated by the movie or report.
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Ancient History
post Oct 5 2003, 04:38 PM
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Simsense is NOT simply video and audio data. That's the point behind simsense: it contains full sensory and emotional data. You're not watching a movie like you would with image link and subdermal speakers, you're experiencing the movie. Very different data format, and what makes things like decking and rigging possible.
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Siege
post Oct 5 2003, 04:45 PM
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Yes! Someone else is thinking the same thing!

Seriously though, if simsense can manifest as visual or audio input ("as someone seeing something"), why couldn't that be distorted to represent a video screen?

As for differing formats, couldn't a standard audio/visual signal be processed into a limited form of simsense?

2) Instead of a full sensory override, how about limited sensory hallucinations that overlay existing senses?

-Siege
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BlackSmith
post Oct 5 2003, 04:58 PM
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ASIST hi-jacks your sense(s) while image link/dispaly link adds external data to your regural field of vision.

like when your looking at some picture hanging in the wall, you place a another pic to some corner over that other pic.
using ASIST to experiense the same picture would you make you feel, taste, hear and see only, and only that picture.
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Siege
post Oct 5 2003, 05:05 PM
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True, standard ASIST.

However, what if we limited that ASIST feed to exclude tacticle, olfactory signals and audio signals and _include_ only highly specific elements of the visual feed?

-Siege
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Cray74
post Oct 5 2003, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Simsense is NOT simply video and audio data.  That's the point behind simsense: it contains full sensory and emotional data. 

So, by that logic, a rigger riding a drone gets everything, including the drone's emotions?

And a rigger in "captain's chair mode" is receiving a full immersion experience of all the drones in his network?

And a decker that stops at a Matrix site that offers showings of old 2D black-and-white movies gets the full immersion experience of sight, sound, taste, and emotions out of those old B&W movies?

And a decker examining an ethereal, tasteless, scentless, inert object (representing a file, for example) in the matrix is going to get some sort of emotional, tactile, taste and smell sensation off it?

Riiiight.

Those are obviously cases where simsense signals do not consist of all senses. A rigger riding drones does not experience the drone's emotions, because it has none. A rigger in captain's chair mode does not get blasted with all the input from all his drones. And a B&W film shown on the Matrix does not magically gain full sensory and emotional data.

Since there are obviously cases where simsense does not come with data from every sense, reasonably, an ASIST converter can take a signals for a few senses (visual and audio) and pump it into those senses of the user.
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BlackSmith
post Oct 5 2003, 05:10 PM
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QUOTE (Siege)
However, what if we limited that ASIST feed to exclude tacticle, olfactory signals and audio signals and highly specific elements of the visual feed?

audio would be quite easy (just leak trough only certain Frequens) but please tell me how can you limit your visual feed? i got only limited medical education thus i can't figure a way to limit a visual feed.
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Siege
post Oct 5 2003, 05:16 PM
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Keeping in mind that this is all hypothetical technology...

What if the simsense feed only has one signal? Say, a visual component? And that visual component happens to be, say, the Mona Lisa.

That's it, just the Mona Lisa. We use the modified ASIST to embed the image of the Mona Lisa as a slightly translucent image floating in our field of vision. The signal or image doesn't have to be exact -- we've all seen television with bad signals or bad pictures of things we know to be different in real life.

-Siege

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Cray74
post Oct 5 2003, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (BlackSmith)
audio would be quite easy (just leak trough only certain Frequens) but please tell me how can you limit your visual feed? i got only limited medical education thus i can't figure a way to limit a visual feed.

That's easy, SR cyberware applies limited visual signals all the time:

1) Crosshairs from smartlinks don't completely obscure your vision
2) Retinal clocks put numbers up without completely obscuring your vision
3) Presumably, Image links could put up limited "windows" of videos over your vision, blocking out a portion of your view
4) As Siege suggested, translucent overlays

etc.

I'm going to ask Fanpro. From this limited sampling of responses, there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rules answers on the board.
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Siege
post Oct 5 2003, 05:29 PM
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There isn't -- I tinkered with the same thing using simsense and a trode rig using strictly external hardware but there was never a definitive response either way.

I'll be interested to hear what they say.

-Siege
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BitBasher
post Oct 5 2003, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE
And a rigger in "captain's chair mode" is receiving a full immersion experience of all the drones in his network?
And a rigger in "captain's chair mode" is receiving a full immersion experience of all the drones in his network? No, because ASSIST isnt neeed for captains chair mode, that can be done with just a datajack.
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 5 2003, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE
So, by that logic, a rigger riding a drone gets everything, including the drone's emotions?


Yes, exactly.

QUOTE
And a rigger in "captain's chair mode" is receiving a full immersion experience of all the drones in his network?


Not quite; they make it clear that Captain's Chair is very much not being jumped into a large number of drones. I see what you mean, though, and more or less the answer IMO would be yes.

QUOTE
And a decker that stops at a Matrix site that offers showings of old 2D black-and-white movies gets the full immersion experience of sight, sound, taste, and emotions out of those old B&W movies?


Yes, definitely.

QUOTE
And a decker examining an ethereal, tasteless, scentless, inert object (representing a file, for example) in the matrix is going to get some sort of emotional, tactile, taste and smell sensation off it?


Yep.

The thing is, some of these things are going to be nonexistant. The rigger doesn't stop receiving the emotional track, it's just that the emotional track is blank. Same with the black and white movie example. It's just like watching a silent movie on your home VCR; your VCR doesn't stop reading sound data, it's just that the sound data happens to be blank.
As I see it, the difference between simsense and visual data a la image links, retinal clocks, etc. is that the former goes to your brain and puts information in there that overrides that coming from the various nerves while the latter just appends the information to the signal riding along the optical nerve.

~J
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Drain Brain
post Oct 5 2003, 07:09 PM
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Or, to continue the metaphore, ASIST changes your TV channel from 1 (your normal senses) to 2 (whatever is being piped in), wheras an image link, smartlink, display link, retinal clock - whatever is like setting up a second TV next to the original so you can see both channel 1 and 2 at once.

hehehe
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BlackSmith
post Oct 5 2003, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (Cray74)
That's easy, SR cyberware applies limited visual signals all the time:

1) Crosshairs from smartlinks don't completely obscure your vision
2) Retinal clocks put numbers up without completely obscuring your vision
3) Presumably, Image links could put up limited "windows" of videos over your vision, blocking out a portion of your view
4) As Siege suggested, translucent overlays

etc.

I'm going to ask Fanpro. From this limited sampling of responses, there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rules answers on the board.

yes, the hardware is specialy desinged for that but ASIST is not.

like i said...
ASIST is desigend to overflow/hi-jack your senses and block out all other output from them.
Display/image link add's something to already exiting sensation.

i try diffrent angle.
you are eating a break fast.
Display/image link adds some flavor in to it and changes it a bit.
ASIST changes the whole breaks fast so instead of serials your eating eggs-and-peakon.

and ASIST does not have "bad" images. your eye senses are stealed to the ASIST interface thus even if you keep your eyes open you simply dont see anything.
like in the movie, matrix. all data comes straight to the brain skiping totaly the real senses.

thus ASIST could not blend images or sounds or anything from both worlds without distracting huge the user.
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Siege
post Oct 5 2003, 09:50 PM
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B. Smith, you're assuming that ASIST must be an "all or nothing" gamble.

Either you get _everything_ from the simsense signal or you get nothing.

Cray and I think that instead of _everything_, a character can opt to receive only certain parts of the signal.

Or the signal itself may not include all possible tracks such as sound, smell, taste, etc.

Another hypothetical -- the general simsense tech can be modified in the manner described -- to weave select signals (feeds, tracks) into existing perceptions.

It seems reasonable, given what we know about this pseudo-tech. That being said, we'll wait to see what the official ruling is on the matter.

-Siege
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TinkerGnome
post Oct 5 2003, 10:43 PM
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QUOTE (Siege)
B. Smith, you're assuming that ASIST must be an "all or nothing" gamble.

I'd be interested in hearing an example where this isn't the case, actually. The only simsense I've seen in the books is a pretty full sensory overlay that gives you a +8 to all actions if you're getting dual feeds for some reason.

Cray's first three examples are all retinal modifications which project the image into your normal field of vision, so they're not really examples of partial simsense.
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Siege
post Oct 5 2003, 11:00 PM
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That's the point of this -- we're taking existing (fictional) tech and experimenting with what can and can't be done.

If the official ruling says "simsense is all or nothing" then the idea is interesting but impossible. But as there hasn't been an official ruling as yet...

Yes, the retinal displays (image, display links) could do all these things.

But we're proposing another way of doing it -- one that hasn't been considered before. Why use electric refrigerators when we could still use blocks of ice?

Saying, "well, it's never been done before" doesn't rule out "it can't be done".

-Siege
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Entropy Kid
post Oct 5 2003, 11:25 PM
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Don't have any books with me, so some of my rule references might be off. Having said that, I've always interpretted a smartlink as making the gun part of the shooter. Goggles give a -1 TN while a full smartlink gives -2 because of this difference, the limited simsense rig enables that. I personally don't think smartlinks have an eye display (a house ruling) and that it's the simsense rig that displays the crosshair, in the shooters brain and not the eyes. If it was actually the eyes, then why the extra TN reduction in a cyber smartlink over the goggles? They're doing the same thing.

The examples given describe ASIST as all or nothing sensory-wise, and that's how I think a normal ASIST converter would work. I don't however see any reason why one couldn't be designed to display limited and less distracting information. It would cost less, if it was like the system in a smartlink, or cost more if like a cyberdeck with selective display. The 'ware would also have to be connected to it's input source (I'm guessing datajack, but who knows)
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 5 2003, 11:28 PM
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But they do have an eye display. Man and Machine explicitly states it.

~J
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Glyph
post Oct 6 2003, 01:01 AM
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Actually, Siege, I think the ASIST link is probably "all or nothing". It is a full immersion of sensory data, which prevents other actions unless you also have an RAS override. It is far different from a retinal display.

It is primarily used by otaku to operate in the Matrix without a deck, and is mainly useful for such characters. Similarly, the invoked memory stimulator is only of use to cyberzombies. Both technologies have a lot of potential for additional uses, but that, IMO, should fall under the category of technological breakthroughs that occur during the campaign, rather than at the start of play.

**EDIT**
By the way, if you look at the components of a smartlink in Man & Machine, you will see that it includes both a retinal display and a limited simrig.
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Siege
post Oct 6 2003, 01:05 AM
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I'd also point out there are a lot of logical extrensions of tech that aren't covered by the relatively few sourcebooks released.

Which means a character could make a case for non-standard gear that people working in the profession might take for granted on a daily basis.

-Siege
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Sonomancer
post Oct 6 2003, 04:01 AM
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..... ehm, scuse me if I'm wrong, but the ASIST seems to just be a conductor which makes raw data comprehensible when piped into the brain. Its the RAS override that does the sense hi-jacking.
A person can jack into a car with a datajack and they wind up with all sorts of visual overlay right? A VCR on the other hand takes the next step into total immersion.
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