Another realitybraker, subscription rule kills wireless hacking Options

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[Serbitar]

The rules also say, that any tests are made using the riggers own attributes when jumped into a drone.

Do you resist damage to a drone with the body attribute of the rigger, because that's exactly what the rules say ?

Think first, then use the rules.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Double Post.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[mfb]

[Serbitar]

There has to be a 2 way connection over the mesh network. If a hacker can reach the smartlink over the mesh via another node, he still cant hack the smartlink, because the smartlink can not talk back if the node is not within 3 meters range.

This stays true und aller circumstances if they havent severely changed physics till 2070.

[mfb]

lemme give you an example:

you're a streetsam with a wireless smartlink. you're standing at a crosswalk in a crowd of people, most or all of them with commlinks. i'm a hacker a block away, outside the range of your smartlink's wireless link. i pick one of the bystanders at random, hack into their commlink. their commlink is within range of your smartlink, so i can now hack your smartlink.

the way the mesh network is explained, i actually shouldn't have to hack anyone at all--your smartlink's wireless signal should be automatically repeated by any node that recieves it, and i'd just have to search for the smartlink's identifier from anywhere on the Matrix. that's insane, though--information overload, i don't care how much infinite memory there is floating around.

[Aku]

which, ofcourse, as it seems prevelent, the two of them aren't "talking" with each other, so your commlink doesnt know your smartlink exists.

This is something i hope the "wired" book covers, exactly what sort of communications occur between what devices. As far as i can understand right now, the smartlink does all of the calculations for firing, and puts a target in your FoV, so it only needs to be linked to your vision method (contacts, cyber eyes, etc)

[Serbitar]

[hobgoblin]

i suspect that only comlinks and stronger actualy register as a node.

ie, every wireless device transmitt their "class", either node or device.

node traffic is normaly repeated (if the node that picks up the transmission either have a direct connection to the node its addressed to, or know of a node that can bring it closer to it), device traffic is not.

most likely the MSP providers run a number of high signal rating nodes (in the area they provide their services) that can be used to get a transmission around the world.

hell, im starting to wonder if the talk about using spoof to hijack a device is just people reading to much into the programs abilitys.

i would suspect that you allways need to go thru a comlink to highjack a device unless its not subscribed (or as i wonder about calling it, paired) with a comlink.

basicly a device have two settings. subscribed/paired, and standby. if its paired it only talkes to the comlink its paired to, in standby it waits for a pairing command and nothing else.

i fear that the unwired book will have to be about as thick as the SR4 main to realy cover all aspects of the wireless matrix.

[mfb]

[FrankTrollman]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The major point about slave subscriptions is that any attacker has to go through Electronic Warfare first (or the Chokepoint).

As that costs additional time, it increases security quite a bit against professionals, and mostly will be untouchable by script kiddies.

[Serbitar]

The reasoning is OK, but I have two problems with this:

You have to think alot about this issue. Most of the time when you really have to think alot about how something works ruleswise, there is a good chance that the game designers did not inted it to work at all, or in the way you figured out.

It makes gameplay much more complex. The philosophy of the matrix system in SR4 is: Hack everything with only a small number of dice rolls, to keep things simple and fast. Thats why almost everything is wireless, so that it can be hacked directly without going through a lot of security. I think it is OK for security facilities, who go through the pain of actually using wired links, to take more time to be hacked, but not for everything else. Form a GM point of view I don't want a rule that, for realism reasons, forces me to alter the security setup of security aware people (like Mr. Johnson, drohne networks) in a way, that makes hacking more complex and time consuming.

The drone is the perfect example. Using the subscriber rule here, almost doubles the amount of needed dice rolls.

Subscription is perfectly acceptable from a realism point of view (as it is already used today by only allowing certain MAC addresses in a wireless network), but I think such measures should be included in the abstract firewall rating, and thus be defeated by normal hacking rules.

After including the spoofing rule to defeat subscription, both vaariants, seem consistent with the game world, and it comes down to personal taste (as I consider the spoofing rule a kind of house rule as you have to do a lot of interpreatation to get to that point).

[mintcar]

That's something I could agree with. Most of the time when something has to be hacked fast, you could just say that the device is not subscribed, though. The rules are so simple I might actually want to have the possibility as a GM to increase the number of steps needed. But if a more important device needs to be hacked, and I want it to be done with a minimal number of dice rolls for some reason, I'm going to just increase the threshold and resolve it normaly.

[Aku]

the easiest way to garuntee something can be hacked quickly, is to make it wireless. Make some LazyJeo netowrking wageslaveinstall the node and have him plob it into wireless mode "just for today" because he wants to get home to see the urban brawl game tonight.

The biggest problem i have with the wireless section, is rules stuff vs. fluff stuff. The rules, pretty much say that everything is wireless. The fluff says that pretty much everyone thats an idiot (joe wage slave) is wireless, but hey, those coprs that know security still use wires!

oh, and the fluff says that wireless has taken over the world! but the rules say it's not quite there yet, and a large portion of the world still has some wireless connectivity issues. <grumble>

[Serbitar]

@mintcar
That is, of course, an option, but I at least try to be an objective GM and not tailor the different situations to how I want it to work ruleswise.
Id rather tailor the world and overall rules to my needs and then be as consistent as possible, as I think that especially in SR where the players are kind of competing against the game world, this game world has to be consistent and with objective rules, to allow for planning.
(how many dice rolls do I want this to take and tailor the situation (whether something is subscribed) accordingly vs. how is the situation (would this device be subscribed in a consistent game world?) and thus the relevant number of dice rolls)

[mintcar]

To each his own, Serbitar. :)

[mfb]

i dunno, maybe i'm missing something. hacking a subscribed device seems pretty simple--you just spoof a command at it, and it takes the action you want it to take, right? you don't have to actually take over the device, just send it fake commands.

[mintcar]

mfb: The way I understand it, you have to know the Access ID of the controlling node or network. That at least provides some extra complications for a hacker, as he has to find out who controls the device and then make a matrix perception test against the persona of that node.

[mfb]

well, yeah. but still, Matrix perception test, and then a spoof whenever you want to mess with the guy? i can't imagine tripping over my dice during that. of course, i enjoy SR3 decking and rigging, so my opinions on complexity might be... off.

[Brahm]

[mfb]

yeah, i forgot about that because it's crazy. crazy things slip my mind. the reason it's crazy: subscribing a device to only accept commands from your commlink is just a form of encryption. you'd just be encrypting encryption, which in real life doesn't add much complexity to the overall task of decrypting it. i, personally, would not allow such connections to be encrypted for this reason. encrypt or subscribe, one or the other.

but, yes, by the rules, you'd also need to decrypt it before commanding it--but you'd only have to do it once, not every time you wanted to spoof the device.

[Brahm]

[mfb]

hm, okay. wasn't thinking of it that way, but that makes more sense. consider my assertions of craziness rescinded.

so, yeah. perception (once), decrypt (once), spoof (until you get tired of their horrified screams as you force them to perform acts that God did not intend to be physically possible). untough, in my opinion.