You've got 400 BPs, now what?, How do you go about chargen? Options

[HeySparky]

I'm curious about how people build their characters PCs and NPCs. Share your process in brief or in detail. This is chiefly for SR4, but if you haven't made the leap yet, feel free to share your SR3 chargen process.

To get some thoughts percolating...

- SR3 or SR4?
- Where do you start?
- What are the first points you spend?
- What are the last points you spend?
- Which part of chargen is a chore? Why?
- Which part of chargen is your favorite? Why?
- Relative to spending points, how much time do you spend on non-point related character building - fleshing out contacts, the 20 questions, etc.? Why?
- Are you mostly a player making PCs or a GM making NPCs?

Assume that whatever PC or NPC that you are making is needed in a game.

[Aku]

well, lets see, i've tinkered with 3, bu i prefer 4, if for no other reason, i'm at the same point in the curve as anyone else (aka, i dont feel weaker, simply because i dont have and can't afford a libary of books),

I still pretty much go as the book suggests, race, attributes, skills etc. for spending points, lastly doing gear points after i think i have everything else where i want them (with the caveat that if i dont spend all my money, i can then go back and spend the rest on "misc" skills

I think gear buying is a chore for me, mainly because i try to play well rounded characters, thatdabble in a range of things that i dont think other characters would, and so i try to also think of a lot of specialized gear.

im not sure i have a "favorite" part, i tend to make characters "backwards" to alot of these boards, in that i spend the points and then say "what sorts fragface would be like this?" and make my story from there.

Not as much as i should, because i seem to get.."lost" on fleshing out contacts alot of times.

[DigitalSoul]

Yeah, gear shopping was always the most massive of chores for me in SR3, less so in SR4, but still a pain.

I don't feel much weaker either (but that's maybe because I love standard adepts).

I tend to keep 20 points on the side for gear and contacts (maybe more or less if the char is cybered or a spell-slinger)

After that it's concept, qualities, active skills, race, attributes, knowledge skills, contacts, then go shopping. Spare points for me are usually blown on contacts or skills.

[Aku]

yea, contacts are absolutly GREAT for spare BP's now, especially odd amounts, more than 4, but less than 10 left? Know somebody!

[Brahm]

I disagree on Contacts. I find them extremely expensive compared to in SR3, although that is partially because you got a couple of free Contacts in SR3 and because you didn't always pay for the full value of your contact in SR3. In SR3 you only paid for loyalty. So a Mob made-man as your good friend cost the same as a good friend that is a no-talent nobody that knows nobody.

I'd go so far as to say that unless you have already allocated your full 50 Build Points already allocated to cash you are likely better off buying something nice like a cheap car than getting a Loyalty 1 Connections 2 Contact. That Contact is something like a peon gang member that will sell you some Novacoke from his personal stash at or above street prices if he has more than he needs at the momment, and really who ever has more Novacoke than he needs? :dead:

Fortunately the SR4 Etiquette rules make having no Contacts hurt a lot less.

Got 4 Build Points left? Learn a trade!

[Cold-Dragon]

Technically, the contactless runner will starve for lack of connections, however, in a group that is less concern - the face will probably supply most of the good stuff.

However, it's a bit mean to put that on the shoulders of your face - hopefully people don't get his/her contacts killed, or says they're useless and ditches them but tries to keep with using their contacts.

Course, it makes a funny game when those people find out the contact just turns the commlink off on them, and they have no where to turn now.

a simple 1/2 contact is still useful, even if it's for novacoke. For one thing, that guy can talk to his biggers and say they know someone that might be helpful. It's your neck if you cheat'em, but if you left yourself with only those options...your fault. :P lol

[mfb]

in SR3, i do my attributes first, then active skills, then cyber and/or magic, then other gear, then knowledge skills.

[Glyph]

In SR4, as in SR3, my approach is to start with a general concept (such as "mage healer/face" or "cybered troll bounty hunter") and work the numbers, fleshing out the background as I go, and making adjustments to the numbers as the background evolves. I have usually had good luck with that. I wind up with a character who will be useful to a group of shadowrunners, and the background fits the stats like a glove.

Some people like starting out with a complete story before they put down any stats, but that approach doesn't seem to work as well, at least for me. You can come up with a character who would be great in a book, but not useful as a character to play in a game. And you also run into problems trying to fit that character into 400 build points.

[Frackula]

I do it the crazy way:

Start with character idea, create background sketch. (Billie the redneck gator rassler became a runner because he don't get paid to rassle no gaters. Usually they're more complicated than that but it's 3:30 am!)
Quotes. ("Where's mah shawtgun?" "Billie dun want his GATER PIE!")
Pick character focus that best fits the idea. (Gator rasslers need physical attributes like bod and str to rassle gators.)
Spend BP on race if he's not human. (Dwarf!)
Spend 200 BP on important attributes.
Pick qualities and flaws which make sense for the character. (Animal Empathy means that he MUST eat whatever animals he kills out of respect, Home Turf: Swamp, Uneducated)
Spend on linked active skills. (Melee combat: Rassling, Truck drivin', boomstick operation, gator handlin'...)
Pick knowledge based on background, don't spend yet. (CAS Moonshine Operations, Gator Hideouts, tabloid news, music: rockabilly...)
Pick spells or adept powers if magic. (Nope. Not Billie.)
Spend points on money to acquire important gear, weapons, programs, cyberware, bioware, lifestyle, whatever fits the character. (Billie done lawst his right arm in wrasslin' accident, so he gets a cyberarm, plus Remmington Roomsweeper- his favorite sawn off shotgun he calls "Chrissy," two payments on his shack in Alabama, daddy's old Armer Jackit from the Pollyclub meetuns... )
Leftover points go to contacts, active skills, spells, etc...
Calculate knowldege, spend points on knowledge skills related to background.
Make sure all money is spent. (The leftover 3 nuyen are spent on Soy Pies and Aztech Cola.)
Roll starting nuyen.

I've probably left out a step. The tedious part is always the stats.

[Guest_MK Ultra_*]

I´m mostly on one page betweem Glyph and Frackula.

Either I´m doing the basic background or try to get a murky picture of the chars physical looks in my mind and start from there, checking back on and elaborating the background as the building process goes.
I´m mostly gm, so many of my characters won´t even get stats ever, or only do so later on, when they have allready had some screentime. But I use the same process for my pc and encourage my players to get at least a basic bg first, since I have a hard time liking characters not build with the emphasis on bg or apearance.
I try out just putting together some stats, but mosly I don´t use such characters in the end.
About stats, the most fun part in chargen are the knowledgeskills and gear, as well as contacts, since those are the things that make the character truely unique, attributes and active skills in the same profession are less variable from char to char.
I allso like having seperate stats for loyalety and conection (I have houseruled seperate ratings similar to foes in the Companion since 2ndEd and still do so). This stops players from trying to purchase Damian Knight as best buddy and make it more worthy to pick lowpower contacts like squatters and stuff, too.

[TinkerGnome]

I'd say I'm more haphazrd than most. I get the "one phase" character description (eg, "combat hacker", "street sam with an AR") and work from that.

First thing I do is grab the important (to the character) attributes at the rating I want. I leave the others at one (for a street sam, for instance, mental all stay at one). Edge usually counts as "not important" at this point.

Then I buy the positive qualities I know I have to have.

Then I grab the skills I know I need most at the ratings I want.

Then I buy any gear I simply have to have.

Then I go back and repeat those steps, spending points on attributes, skills, gear, and finally contacts. If I need more points, I consider negative attributes, but try to keep it to a minimum.

By the time I'm thinking about negative attributes, I should have a good idea of the character's background. At about the point that the stats are 90% finished, I write up the background to the extent I'm going to. Finally, I polish off the rest of the stats. Background skills are pretty much always last since they're dependant on background more than anything else.

[Brahm]

Approximately the same in SR4 as SR3.

Character Concept
Race
Negative/Positive Qualities
Attributes
Skills
Background Skills
Implants
Gear including Contacts
Tweak Attributes, Skills, Implants, Gear, and sometimes Race and Qualities until it all fits.

[toturi]

I do my own PCs this way:

1) Find a RAW/Canon rule/s that can be broke and preferably one that noone has broke yet. Stringently rules lawyer it out, flimsy combos do not cut it.

2) Find a character type that would plausibly have the access to those rules or can most easily break them.

3) Do the numbers.

4) Write the backstory.

5) Reiterate 3 and 4.

6) If necessary, tweak the character so that it appears broke(but in such a way that the GM can easily counter) but leaving people unaware that the character was shaped to be broke in another way. For example, for SR3, a shotgun wielding(obvious broke) adept but he's really a social adept who can persuade the sec guard that he's such a loser and he should really shoot himself(more obscure brokeness).

[Thanee]

Since I just made my first SR4 character... :)

[Ryu]

1. char concept (necessary. limits later choices)
2. race
3. basic skillset
4. allocate points for ressources based on an estimate, considering ware if applicable
5. spend the rest on attributes / skills / contacts
6. spend ressources

7. Tweak all simultaneously until pleased, qualities go here if they weren´t part of char concept.

[The Horror]

Concept
Race
Qualities
Attributes (spend full 200 points)
Skills (buy without consideration to cost)
Magic/Adept Powers
Gear and Cyberware/Bioware and Lifestyle (up to 50 BP worth)
Contacts

Then I trim the character to get it within the point limit.


BTW: The book is terribly organised. Making a character takes a lot longer than it should, and a big part of that is organisation.

[stevebugge]

Character Concept and History
Race/Attributes/Skills/Qualities/Contacts Key to Concept
Other Attributes
Other Skills
Gear
Contacts
Magic

I agree with The Horror the book is not well laid out for Character development. This is one instance where I'm very glad I got both the PDF and the print version as printing a few oft referenced tables from the PDF has made this process much easier.

[HeySparky]

This is good stuff, folks, just the kind of information I'm looking for.

@ stevebugge - which charts? (just off the top of your head if you don't have them memorized or don't have the book on hand)

[stevebugge]

The Build Point Cost Summary Table (pg 348)
The Skill Group List (pg 110)
The Skill and Linked Attribute list (pg 110)
The Street Grimoire (pgs 197-204) and Adept Powers (pgs. 187-189)
The Commlink & OS Tables (pgs 214 & 215) and Programs (Pgs. 226-227)
The connection & loyalty rating tables for Contacts (pgs 278 & 279)

I have a lot of these printed and put in to a small binder for quick reference (still requires some flipping but it's much less than the full book

Then you can use your book and or laptop to reference Skill, Gear, or Quality descriptions as needed with less flipping to and from the tables.

A comprehensive listing of Gear and Costs would speed things up even more.

[Chiaroscuro23]

Once I have a concept decided on, I just start writing down what I want for the character with no regard to points, picking up a bundle of disads since they're more-or-less requisite IMC. Then I add up how many I've taken, and start eliminating stuff to get down to requirements.

Generally I eliminate skills to save on BP, because they're among the costliest stuff. Attributes are too good to skimp on, and anyway I normally pick about the max number of points as my desired level. Major gear outlays I play into my general level of BP (taking Synaptic Boost 2 for a PhysAd, for example, or a couple of foci for spellcasters). The minor stuff is almost never more than three points. Sams require a lot of time for gear, so I go back through and cull all the stuff I don't really need, re-figuring their gear totals repeatedly.

Try to save about 10-15 BP for contacts. I dislike the contact rules in SR4. They should be much, much cheaper, and I'd like to have a Contact Trait you could roll against to introduce a new contact you made up on the spot. "Hey, I know an auto mechanic in Riverside, we went to school together. Let's stop in." Rather than detailing them all up front and then never knowing if they'll come into play or not. I like the nebulous idea of how connected a runner is.

[BlackHat]

That's not a bad idea.

MAke it something like conjuring up a spirit. ;-) Only, it'd be a little difficult to describe why your face passes out when he tries to call up some people and get in touch with a megacorp CEO.

[Kender]

I tend to follow this pattern for SR4:

• Get a character concept in my head.
• Fumble around the hard drive trying to find the Excel sheet I used last time.
• Swear.
• Re-download it.
• Attributes/Race
• Qualities
• Set aside 50bp for gear - steal from here when I run out of points below.
• Skills (Active)
• Contacts
• Gear
• Swear again, I forgot Skills (Knowledge) and Languages.
• Skills (Knowledge)
• Languages.

That's about it so far. :) Admittedly I have only built about a dozen characters so far, but that does seem to be the pattern!

[BlueRondo]

Hello all. I'm new to Dumpshock and Shadowrun (still reading through the rulebook.) I have a question about character creation and BP.

I get the impression that the "typical" 400 BP character is supposed to be a professional shadowrunner who has already been in the business for some time. What do you recommend as a starting BP value for a character who isn't a professional shadowrunner yet and is pretty much a nobody? (For example, Luke in Star Wars started out as a simple farm boy, Neo in The Matrix is just an office worker who does some hacking on the side.) Would the 300 BP "street level" recommendation from the book fit such a character, or do you think another value would be more appropriate?

[Glyph]

Personally, I would rather tell the players that it is a street level campaign with non-professional runners, and to make characters accordingly. That way, they can spend the 400 build points to come up with characters that are less "professional" but have lots of odd quirks and useful skills. Because even with 200 build points, you could still make a broken/min-maxed character if you really tried. If you want a campaign of lowly gangers, you will need to do more than merely limit the build points - there is already a thread on this here.

As I said, I would prefer to simply tell the players what kind of campaign it is, because when you limit points, you can wind up with a dreary similarity to the characters (all of the combat-oriented ones getting Agility of 4 and combat skills of 4, if that is what you limit them to). They all get the "essential" stuff, so no one has any quirky "extra" stuff that would make them stand out. With 400 build points, if you are not making a professional runner, you can spend more points on things like contacts and oddball skills that would be to "useless" to take normally.

One caveat: I would limit points to 300 (or even less) if the characters were supposed to not just be "street level", but genuinely weak (kid gangers or scavenging barrens squatters, for example). And such games can be fun - I had a blast playing Cage Fight, which was an SR3 game with 40 BP characters.

[BlueRondo]

Thanks for pointing out the other thread.

To get back on topic, my character creation process isn't much different from the other ones stated. Once I have a basic character concept down, I go:

-Name/Age/Sex/Personal stuff
-Metatype
-Attributes
-Negative/Positive Qualities
-Active Skills
-Knowledge Skills/Languages
-Magic/Powers (if any)
-Gear
-Contacts

I save contacts for last because, like I said before, I'm new to Shadowrun, so I'm not used to incorporating contacts into the character creation process.