 Weapon Mounts, Missing the obvious |
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 Feb 21 2006, 08:50 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 21-February 06 Member No.: 8,290  |
So I can't find a list of which weapons have what mounts available for SR4. Am I just blind and it's in plain sight in the book? I found reference to what weapon mounts mean even, but again, no mounts!
:wobble: Specifically I'm trying to determine if bows still have a weapon mount that can take a sight. |
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Feb 21 2006, 09:59 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Page 301-302. Int the box.
Only laser sight and smartgun systems for projectile weapon. |
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 Feb 21 2006, 10:52 AM
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#3
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,986 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
As a follow-up to that question... if a specific weapon (i.e. FN HAR) says it has a built-in accessory (i.e. GasVent), does that take up the appropriate mount (i.e. barrel mount), or can you add something else there (i.e. Sound Suppresser)?
Bye Thanee |
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Feb 21 2006, 10:55 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
Yes. A GasVent is a GasVent, pre-mounted or not. If not stated otherwise in the description text.
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Feb 21 2006, 11:11 AM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Actually, that changed since the last edition. Integral items do not take up slots in SR4.
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Feb 21 2006, 12:23 PM
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#6
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
The only thing forbidden now is putting an external GasVent on an internal one.
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Feb 21 2006, 12:41 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624 |
It changed? Really? COOL!!! :D
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Feb 21 2006, 01:03 PM
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#8
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, very interesting indeed. it makes the slivergun less broken then before, or what? alltho, its maybe the wrong way of attacking the imbalance of said gun by upping the abilitys of the other guns...
still, being able to combo a gasvent and a silencer sounds to me a bit fishy given that a gasvent would basicly make said silencer useless (silencers work by trapping gasses and thereby lowering the noise the gun makes, iirc). |
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Feb 21 2006, 02:01 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
That's probably the reason why those weapons use a sound suppressor instead ;).
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Feb 21 2006, 02:22 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 211 |
Silencer, suppressor, same thing thing. You can't trap the muzzle gasses indefinitely in any case, you just have to slow them down so that when they ARE released they're subsonic. Theoretically, a gas vent could work there by venting all the gas from the suppressor upwards, though it would prbably be less effective because subsonic gas would provide less force over a longer period.
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Feb 21 2006, 03:02 PM
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#11
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,986 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
The internal GasVent probably works in a different way than the external one.
It's high-tech, that's almost like magic. ;) Bye Thanee |
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Feb 21 2006, 03:37 PM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
You could always house rule in range reductions (based on the loss of propellent gasses) for using Supressors and Gas Vents if you are concerned about these being game breakers. Personally I'm not to worried about it, it will work against PC's as often as for them.
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Feb 21 2006, 05:25 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
Is there a page reference for this? |
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Feb 21 2006, 06:13 PM
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#14
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Pg 301 & 302 Gear Ratings Sidebar:
Mounts: Shows where a weapon accesory can be attached to a weapon: Underbarrel, Barrel, or Top-Mount. Only one accessory can be attached to a particular mount. Integral accessories (those that come with the weapon) don't take up mount locations. Hold-outs don't have mounts. Pistols (including machine pistols) have a top mount and a barrel mount. SMG's, all rifles, and heavy weapons have a top mount, barrel mount, and underbarrel mount. Projectile weapons can only be equipped with a laser sight or a smartgun system. |
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Feb 21 2006, 07:15 PM
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#15
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
While I donīt know the problems of this combination in reality (I assume harder-but-doable with some tradeoffs), the rules are pretty clear. Much rejoicing!
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Feb 22 2006, 06:45 AM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
It's just plain undoable in reality. The gas vent/muzzle brake depends on high velocity propellant gases being ejected in certain directions to reduce and negate part of the force of recoil. The sound suppressor traps and slowly releases the gases. The two work at cross purposes and cannot function together. (The kind of setup Dafmeister mentioned above would require a really funky sound suppressor design and the reduction of recoil beyond that provided by a conventional design would be insignificant. So I guess it's "harder-but-doable" if you consider a complete lack of effect a tradeoff.) On the upside, a (real-life) sound suppressor also significantly reduces the felt recoil of a firearm, possibly by as much as a muzzle brake.
Propellant gases aren't "lost" when using either sound suppressors or gas vents. Muzzle velocity is not affected by gas venting at the muzzle -- the propellant gases still push the projectile right up to the muzzle at full force. Certain sound suppressor designs actually increase the velocity of the projectile, because the expansion chamber acts like a slightly extended barrel. |
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Feb 22 2006, 07:36 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Unless you're using a future-tech speaker supressor that works by emitting destructively interfering sound waves to cancel out the noise of the weapon firing. |
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Feb 22 2006, 08:10 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Is there something in SR4 that suggests sound suppressors work like that?
At least back in the 2060s "sound suppressor" still referred to the same type of design as it does today, except being built out of really crappy, non-heat-resistant materials. |
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Feb 22 2006, 09:14 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
For some reason this conversation sounds very familiar, right down to the same two posters. :?
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Feb 22 2006, 09:50 AM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
That's because nick012000 have opposite methods of dealing with problems in SR: I want to argue about them, he wants to excuse them. :P
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Feb 22 2006, 09:57 AM
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#21
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Well, the rules are still pretty clear :P
Itīs now officially SOTA to do both. |
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Feb 22 2006, 08:46 PM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
As long as either the suppressor or the vent is built into the weapon :P
You know what's really scary? The Ingram Smartgun-X, with it's integral gas vent AND sound suppressor, can also mount a barrel-mounted laser sight. Holy bulbous barrels, Batman! |
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Feb 22 2006, 08:51 PM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Great, just great: A Swiss Army Gun. :D
Additionally take a re-read of the imaging scope on Pg 311 and then catalogue the available options on pg 323. New question can you link your Smartgun to your Imaging Scope? |
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Feb 22 2006, 09:13 PM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Why bother? You can add imaging accessories to the smartgun camera now. So you've already got an imaging scope built in to the smartgun system. |
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Feb 22 2006, 09:26 PM
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#25
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
I agree there really isn't any point. Mostly it's just after a detailed reading there are some peculiarities, for example it looks like you could either link your smartlink to itself (really pointless) or daisy chain smartlinks (again not sure why you would). Just another example of rules vagueness I guess. Actually maybe there is a point to a smartgun system in a top mounted imaging scope, you'd have a self contained smartgun (though the neural command features would be disabled) that you could just grab and use without the need for putting on goggles or glasses. Still not that useful if you've got cybereyes. |
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