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> General magic idea
Serbitar
post Feb 23 2006, 07:41 PM
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spell tests are made using: magic + force, with spellcasting as maximum number of hits. Every hit above skill is added to the drain (the magician is not skilled enough to control the full power of the spell).

Would kind of fix low force spells, as well as high force spells.

Could also be used in matrix, using logic + programme, limited by skill (no drain, though). This was suggested in the matrix house rule thread.

Also in other situations using attribute + "tool", limited by skill.

In some situations, your skill is your only tool, so you get, attribute + skill, limited by skill, which is a good thing to have to prevent attribute monsters with only some skills.

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Brahm
post Feb 23 2006, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE (Serbitar @ Feb 23 2006, 02:41 PM)
spell tests are made using:  magic + force, with spellcasting as maximum number of hits. Every hit above skill is added to the drain (the magician is not skilled enough to control the full power of the spell).

Would kind of fix low force spells, as well as high force spells.

Could also be used in matrix, using logic + programme, limited by skill (no drain, though). This was suggested in the matrix house rule thread.

Comments?

It has been suggested a number of times in the past to have it Logic + Skill limited by Program Rating, which is what is roughly analogous to SR4 Magic (you don't roll Magic + Force :( ).

In any event limiting to 6 hits maximum ever is not really a great idea at all IMO. It works better for Magic because you can take the Force up much higher, so you don't have that 6 hits total limit.

EDIT

Frankly I don't get the push people have behind trying to get Logic used in more VR rolls. Logic is a fairly well used technical Attribute already, and to boot Attributes are cheap one to raise. SR4 VR is already ahead of SR3 in diversity of advancement needed because you now have 5 Skills in the place of the single Skill in SR3. Why regress from that advancement?

Don't like hackers with a pile of Rating 6 programs at Chargen? Just raise the Avail to RatingX3. Simple, quick, done. I really don't understand why Fanpro didn't do that to start with.
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Brahm
post Feb 23 2006, 07:58 PM
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Oh, I see you are suggesting screwing around with a system that works again. This time Magic.

Ummm, ok. I'll look it again.

EDIT

QUOTE
with spellcasting as maximum number of hits


This is generally a bad thing as previously mentioned. Although do those extra hits that cause extra drain also get to do extra work?
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The Horror
post Feb 23 2006, 08:59 PM
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My only concern would be that the drain could very easily turn out to be disastrous. Essentially, it would add another layer of randomness to the drain.

Currently, the mage sets the force and that in turn sets the drain. Then the mage soaks the drain (one layer of randomness).

With this method the mage would set the force, but when casting the spell the drain value could end up being dramatically changed (1st layer of randomness). Then the mage would try to soak it (2nd layer of randomness).

Let's look at an example:

RAW: The mage (Magic 6, Willpower 4, Logic 4, Spellcasting 4) casts Stunball at Force 6. With the RAW the mage rolls 10 dice and has his successes capped at 6. He then takes 4 drain (F/2 + 1). To soak it he rolls 8 dice and will end up taking about 1-2 drain.

Alternative Rules: The same mage (Magic 6, Willpower 4, Logic 4, Spellcasting 4) casts Stunball at Force 6. He rolls 12 dice (Magic + Force) and has his successes capped at 4 (skill rating). Since the average successes of this roll is 4, the cut off is right on the borderline. His drain will be 4 (F/2 + 1) plus the number of successes he rolls in excess of 4 (from the spellcasting roll). One unlucky roll here and he could end up taking an extra 2-4 drain than expected. Then he soaks with 8 dice, and prays to the dice Gods that he can soak the extra drain.


So just from looking at it I'd say that these rules would add a much nastier feel to magic. Mages would have to be constantly balancing the force of their magic against the successes they'd need to succeed and the possible repercussions of rolling too many successes on the spellcasting roll. Very nasty given that the targets roll Body or Willpower to resist the spell.

Which brings up another question. What would the cap be for the defending party? Say you go to soak damage. You should roll Attribute + ??? capped by skill. However, skill doesn't really apply during these steps. So how would this work?


I like the idea in theory. If these little details can be nutted out and applied consistently to the rest of the game it would be a fantastic alternative rules set. So I definately urge you to play around with it a little more. And make sure to post up any ideas you have on the subject!



The Horror



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Dv84good
post Feb 23 2006, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (Brahm @ Feb 23 2006, 02:45 PM)

It has been suggested a number of times in the past to have it Logic + Skill limited by Program Rating, which is what is roughly analogous to SR4 Magic (you don't roll Magic + Force :( ).
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I maybe mistaken but can't a hacker create a program at a level higher than six himself. :twirl:
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Brahm
post Feb 23 2006, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Dv84good @ Feb 23 2006, 04:49 PM)
I maybe mistaken but can't a hacker create a program at a level higher than six himself. :twirl:

Currently no, and not just because creating your own programs is horrendously time consuming. There just aren't any Programs rated higer than 6 in RAW. If a PC could write one then they should be able to buy one from an NPC at some price.

You could house rules adding programs above that rating. But for what purpose? You really don't add a whole lot bringing Logic into those skills since Logic is already generally an important skill for technical types.
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Dv84good
post Feb 23 2006, 10:14 PM
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It basically is a inconsistency to me. Being all other characters use attribute for dice pool. but then you have the hacker who pool is limited to the program of six whereas other type can enhance to minimum (9) with magic,cyber, or bio.
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Brahm
post Feb 23 2006, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (Dv84good @ Feb 23 2006, 05:14 PM)
It basically is a inconsistency to me. Being all other characters use attribute for dice pool.  but then you have the hacker who pool is limited to the program of six whereas other type can enhance to minimum (9) with magic,cyber, or bio.

If they were regularly being opposed by an Attribute+Skill roll that would concern me. But they really aren't.

The lack of consistancy is more of a problem with Magic because it is theoretically uncapped, but usually the Attribute portion of the opposing rolls are not.
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