Matrix Law Enforcement, Incompetence? Options

[hyzmarca]

An article called Crime and Puzzlement has invoked some interesting thoughts about the Matrix savyness of law enforcement.

The following quote, in particular, has placed some ideas in my head.

[Edward]

Using the matrix rules it is almost imposable to trace a competent and diligent Decker. Take 5 min to jump around various grids redirecting your data trail 20-30 times and the tracers will never get you, that’s why l33t deckers never get caught.

There is variation in skill of matrix security and investigators but sum are very good. Grid overwatch division for example is somebody to be scared of, they may not be able to find you but if they think there justified they will kill you with lethal attack programs.

Edward

[Kagetenshi]

GOD is here.

~J

[fistandantilus4....]

Remember that when BlackHammer programs were still a myth, the Star had them. Toss in fun stuff like pschyotropic IC (or god forbid Psych-agents!) and deck frying programs, and GOD has lightning bolts to toss in spades. Make enough noise often enough, and they'll make a task force. They don't have to trace you. They can camp. :)

[Calvin Hobbes]

Also, Lone Star only patrols grids that are paying for their grid enforcement, which most companies probably just have people do in house. Most Lone Star Deckers are either highly paid specialists, rock bottom discount cyberais, or personal security. The top end guys, reserved for the Lone Star central mainframe and high-paying clients, probably know their hoops from a server, but the others it may be hit or miss.

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Edward]

[ShadowDragon8685]

I dunno. The internet is a notoriously lawless place - I imagine that the 'Trix would be even moreso.

Think about it. When you show up with a wanted Icon, you're basically showing up and offering to do battle.

So the way I see it is that GOD will fold real quick after three or so of the following incidents:

Step 1: Wanted person goes onto a security-status server, makes himself known.
Step 2: GOD shows up with their huge posse. This of course is an impossible-to-miss event.
Step 3: As GOD prepares to jack the crap out of the target, he dumps, and his 30 or so hombres, probably including multiple Otaku, log in, and teach GOD a very painful lesson: When the Star gets into a fight they can't handle, they call for an HTR. When K-E gets into trouble, they drop a load of Firewatch on the problem. But when you already brought the baddest you have as SOP, and they laid an ambush for you, the best you had are going to be jerking and bleeding from the mouth and flatlining.

And if you ask why anyone would do that, two words.
"Shadowrunners. Nuyen."

Really. It's not too hard to imagine that some nova-hot-shit decker's little brother got waxed by these guys, and he decides to hire the best combat deckers he can find to help him get payback. After one or two of these, GOD folds, because they can't maintain a bottom line providing security, because their security all got geeked!

[fistandantilus4....]

remember that the GOD deckers have top of the line gear. If you're running 3rd edition, that could quite potentially mean Excalibur decks for the loto f 'em and program ratings in the teens. That's nothing to sneer at, even if you can arrange to have a group of otaku show up just to throw down for no other reason than cash or flat lining the matrix cops. As otaku are, by definition, kids, I personally have a hard time seeing this happen, but that's just my game.

Also, remember that in 3rd edition, the GOD deckers are going to be legitimate icons. THat makes a BIG difference in matrix combat.And they're going to have back up on the way. Either they'll be running traces on you at the same time, or you're decking through a satelite, which will slow you down. They don't have to ,because they don't have to worry about being traced. And in the end, if it really comes down to it, they can bring in an S-K (the ultimate IC/Agent, not the corp). You can't. If that isn't enough to convince you that you shouldn't mess with these guys, at the very least on purpose, than one of three things is likely true. Either you're going to lose a character, your game is vastly different than mine, or your character and pack of otaku are such bad asses that you might as well go fry Deus and his merry band of whites while you're still online. YMMV

[mfb]

i think GOD is the equivalent of 90s and 00s cops getting wise to the whole Intarwebb phenomenon. previously, corps depended on their own internal security for protection, since most of them were still used to the hacking world of the 90s and early 00s, where the chances of a criminal haxx0ring your datas was pretty small if you invested wisely in system security. with the advent of the Matrix, hackers transformed overnight from cro-magnon tribesmen into the Great White Hunter. corps, used to dealing with dumb guys with pointy sticks, weren't prepared for being shot through the skull with an elephant gun by a portly gent who says things like "tut tut!" and "cheerio!"

with GOD, the corps are basically trying to extend their security across the whole Matrix. i'm not sure that's the best way to go about it (given the SR3 Matrix rules, the best way would be to simply jack up the sec tally to 10 or so on every Matrix host), but at least they're not just hiding behind their walls of IC.

[fistandantilus4....]

I saw them as a little more myself. I pictured them being more like the feds, the go-to guys when you've got something that you can't handle. Not necessarily on the phone to respond to security concerns whenever someone is getting hacked, but rather for the big league deckers out there, the ones that most systems only slow down. So for these guys they out fit them with SOTA gear and software, some good cyber like the Math SPU, and pput them to work against the best the deckers have to offer. That's just my interpretation though.

[SL James]

That'd fit with the jurisdictional jurisdiction-waving nonsense that goes into the information about them (like the face-off between the G-Men and UCAS Matrix Marshals).

[Kagetenshi]

[Sharaloth]

Ah, but this is an ambush, remember. The clever deckers have thought this one out beforehand, and they all have administrator priveledges with wide open access. The GOD decker who goes for the server crash gets blocked every time by one of the three guys whose job with the ambush team is to record the whole asskicking for posterity (and hilarity) and prevent anyone from ending the party too soon.

[mfb]

now you just have to hire 30 deckers with attack programs that can defeat the GOD deckers' rating 10-14 armor programs. the whole scenario is improbable--how often do you see runners setting up revenge ambushes for Red Samurai, or Ghosts, or any other faceless specops group? why is GOD more prone to revenge action than these other groups?

[SL James]

They're special.

[Edward]

[mfb]

not to mention the problem of finding the GOD deckers in the first place. if they're smart--and they are--they'll come into the system stealthed, take out their target with a one-shot kill (or trace them silently; have to check and see if that's an option, don't recall), and then log. the ambushers will never get a chance to spring their ambush. heck, the GOD deckers probably won't ever know it was there. keep in mind, to locate a GOD decker, the TN is going to be in the neighborhood of 20-24. and no program reduces that TN.

[SL James]

Corps also have commandos. Silent trace would be cool if you combine it with a silent stalking and a silenced shot to the decker's frontal lobe.

[Wounded Ronin]

Granted I don't know what GOD is but just reading this thread...

Rating 14 programs? Do those exist? I mean, yeah, statistically we can design a rating 14 program. But my idea of the game world was that rating 6 anything was very good, rating 8 was the absolute best custom bestest thing ever, and rating 10 might be a one-of-a-kind item. Rating 14 anything flowing around like free beer sounds like power level inflation.

That's the problem I have as a GM when characters start to get really powerful. My impression of the SR world just from overall reading of the sourcebooks is that things like magical initiates and cyberzombies and things with ratings over 6 should be really really rare. Even though theoretically I could smack down any player by throwing out melee physads with rating 14 weapon foci or, like, cyberzombie battalions, my impression was that that kind of stuff just shouldn't happen. Most NPCs going up against the PCs, even if they're trained for combat, are going to have skills and attributes at 5 because that's described as "professional" by SR3.

As evidenced by my inability to deal effectively with powerful characters perhaps I'm the one who is incorrect. But I also feel like if I am incorrect then the SR rulebooks were a bit misleading by calling rating 8 "world class" and rating 5 "professional".

[Fix-it]

[ShadowDragon8685]

I was under the impression that you could not run any program with a rating above your MPCP, and thus everybody's ratings cut off at the MPCP rating of an Excalibur; something that, while expensive as damn-be-damned, is nowhere near outside the range of a good Decker.

Hence, the only thing that GOD can bring to the fight that the deckers might not - OR MIGHT, depending on just how well-organized our anti-GOD team is - have is the SKs.

[Brahm]

[SL James]

I'm still wondering what a decker would have to do to piss off the Corporate Court (not just a member, but the Court itself) enough to send the G-Men after you in the first place.

Aside from that, with regards to deckers I always figured that part of why there aren't legions of deckers in prison is the same reason there aren't thousands of runners in general in prison - they're freelance deniable assets. What's the point of taking out someone when you can use it against them later to run against your competitor? Besides, it keeps the ranks low and it puts runners into a position where even a Resource Adjustment Division would find amusement not just hunting runners, but just having a little fun with them.

[Wounded Ronin]