 360 rounds a minute, Does my player's character really do it? |
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 Mar 1 2006, 06:29 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362  |
Scenario:
Player in my game has 3 initiative passes and a remington roomsweeper which has an 8-round capacity internal magazine. since he can fire it twice a pass (simple action) this means he can fire 6 shells a turn. This works out at: 6 shells a turn x 3 seconds per turn x 20 (x3 seconds) in a minute making 320 rounds a minute. That's really really fast but not what my problem is. I'm confused about the fact that the remington has no recoil modifier... so this guy (if the magazine was suddenly infinite) could fire 360 rounds a minute and not suffer any penalties? There's got to be something up with that. Any help appreciated! :) |
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Mar 1 2006, 06:44 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
3 seconds per Combat Turn means there's 20 Combat Turns in one minute. If there are 6 shots in 1 Combat Turn, that means 120 shots per minute.
What do you mean by "no recoil modifier"? Semi-auto and has 1 point of RC or what? |
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Mar 1 2006, 06:54 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
Yeah 120 that's more like it.... :/ I suck at maths ;)
Oh I get you, I got confused by the fact that it doesn't have it's own recoil score in the stat line... So he takes his -1 on the second action of each pass or on each cumulutive action of each pass in a turn? |
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Mar 1 2006, 06:58 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
-1 die on each of the second shots. Recoil penaties are not cumulative between IPs.
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Mar 1 2006, 07:03 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
That's fair. Thanks!
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Mar 1 2006, 07:13 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Firing 2 shells a second really isn't that ridiculous, especially from a small-caliber shotgun like the Roomsweeper.
Assuming you're running Quickness 4, it'll take you 2 complex actions to reload that thing when it runs dry. This lowers your character's "effective" rate of fire to about 80 rounds per minute. Box-mag shotguns ("clip" in shadowrun terms) are your friend :) |
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Mar 1 2006, 07:20 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
Well, it was more ridiculous when I had calculated it wrong ;) Yeah, I'd have preferred a clip model personally but whatever he wants. |
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Mar 1 2006, 07:45 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
A shotgun firing at 360 rnds/second. http://midamericarecreation.com/aa12_autom...tic_shotgun.htm That is a full auto, but in SR terms more like a short BF rate compared to other RL full auto firearms. |
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Mar 1 2006, 07:56 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
That's awesome, except it looks like crap.
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Mar 1 2006, 08:01 PM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
this one's prettier, though i believe it's got a lower ROF.
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Mar 1 2006, 08:01 PM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
As long as it is comfortable while firing, can take a beating, accurate, and is easy to use/maintain, I don't care what it looks like. make it look like a pink elephant for all I care.
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Mar 1 2006, 08:15 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
You want to get into max autofire rates for shotguns in SR, well... dig up a CMDT and smartlink it.
Phase 1: Character autofires entire 10 round magazine (Complex Action). Character yells "Yeeeehaw!" (Free Action). Phase 2: Character ejects magazine from the shotgun (FA). Character puts new magazine into the shotgun (Simple Action). Character fires a long burst (SA). Phase 3: Character fires a long burst that is short 2 rounds, emptying the magazine (SA). Character ejects magazine from the shotgun (FA). Character puts new magazine into the shotgun (SA). End of Combat Turn, repeat next Combat Turn. 20 shells per turn times 20 turns per minute = 400 rounds per minute. And if you trick the character out with a rigid stock/shock pad and two cyberarm gyros, he takes a -4 (2 uncomped shells, x2 for shotgun autofire) on the full auto burst and NO penalties on the long bursts. If gas vents were legal for shotguns, he'd be at no penalties whatsoever. And according to the RAW, your character is spending 4000 nuyen a minute feeding flechette ammo into that piece (assuming he picks up all his magazines afterwards... they're 200 bucks a minute). |
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Mar 1 2006, 08:23 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
Well, holy crap. That's just wrong. |
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Mar 1 2006, 08:40 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Yeah, once you consider that his effective rate of fire (that is, his ROF including downtime to reload, etc) is close to the cyclic rate of fire (the ROF you'd get if you had an infinitely large magazine) you get with modern automatic shotguns, this is scary.
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Mar 1 2006, 11:20 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 21-February 06 From: Lenexa, Kansas (Yes Kansas, we ain't all hicks y'all.) Member No.: 8,291 |
400 Rounds of flechette ammo?
4000 Nuyen 40 Clips to hold 'em all? 200 Nuyen Turning an auditorium full of goons into a bloody, knee-deep sludge in the space of sixty seconds? Priceless. |
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Mar 1 2006, 11:29 PM
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#16
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
atleast people cant complain that they no longer get RL cyclic rates on SR guns :silly:
still, 4 dice reduction, thats kinda ouch given that your avarage person is rolling what, 6 dice? allso, i dont know cyberarm gyros where cumulative... |
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Mar 1 2006, 11:41 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
RAW doesn't really have much to say about whether using one of each arm stacks the recoil compensation, or even how well it works using it on one arm only for two handed weapons. Although they could just use a full body Gyro rig system instead for the 6 points of compensation. |
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 Mar 1 2006, 11:52 PM
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#18
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,987 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
The average person, that is using an automatic shotgun for several minutes continuously, certainly has more than 6 dice. :D |
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Mar 1 2006, 11:58 PM
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#19
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
yatzee :silly: |
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Mar 2 2006, 12:46 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Yeah, it's a safe assumption that your average person doesn't drag around with two cyberarm gyros and a smartlinked autoshotgun.
Besides, if they're average, the smartgun bumps 'em up to 8 :) |
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Mar 2 2006, 05:20 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 282 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 197 |
Isn't that AA-12 the shotty being marketed for use with the FRAG-12 explosive rounds? I remember reading that it had almost no felt recoil. Saw pics of a little boy firing it, and he couldn't have been more than 8.
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Mar 2 2006, 06:08 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 775 Joined: 31-March 05 From: florida Member No.: 7,273 |
it was the tested platform for the frag 12 round i believe. Me, i just want my AS-7 back when arsenal comes out
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Mar 2 2006, 09:25 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-April 05 From: France Member No.: 7,343 |
I have got a question : how can we increase the ROF of any pistol by +300%, without any additive recoil nor any imprecision ?
answer : get increase reflex 3 sorry I leave :rotfl: |
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Mar 2 2006, 11:07 AM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Using your own reflexes to magically accelerate the bolt and carrier inside a conventional firearm is even easier in SR3 because it has no IP/CT limitation. Too bad for all the mundane, non-wared guys who want a MAC-11 in .380 ACP. |
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Mar 2 2006, 11:13 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 27-April 05 From: Summoning a spirit of the land Member No.: 7,362 |
Woah... now THAT is ridiculous :)
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