Mentor Sprites, Has any one created rules? Options

[Kageryu]

I'm about to embark on the process of creating rules for a Mentor Sprite quality for Technomancers. I've searched through the forum, not an exaustive one, and found no reference to any one already doing this and wanted to see if any one had any material they'd already made. I don't think it should be difficult, at least not the bonuses, but I feel the penalties will take a bit of thought and I've found it's often better to work with others or work with current ideas to balance them. I'm new to the forums but I've been playing/GMing Shadowrun since 1st Edition and still have my 1st Edition books. (You'd have to pry them out of my cold dead fingers.)

[stevebugge]

I would think that if you mirrored the Mentor Spirits for Magicians/Adepts in magic with different names and flavor you would have a good start. You would have to probably link the bonuses and penalties to specific forms or to the linked skills, since programs are not classified in quite the same way as spells are. If the overall question is should they exists? It's your game so whatever you think fits.

[stevebugge]

[neko128]

I would consider pushing Armor from manipulation over to Health, just to level out the groups.

EDIT: ESPECIALLY since Medic doesn't work for Technomancers, right?

[stevebugge]

I'm not sure if Medic does or not. That's probably a good idea since Manipulation is clearly an over-heavy list right now.

Maybe move Reality Filter to Detection then also

[Kageryu]

Okay, well this is a good start to the discussion. I appreciate all the input we have. I like the idea of bonuses to associated Complex Forms. As far as types of sprites, that's already been done.

Courier Sprite - Analyze, Encrypt, Stealth, Track, Transfer

Crack Sprite - Analyze, Exploit, Stealth

Data Sprite - Browse, Edit, Transfer

Fault Sprite - Armor, Attack, Stealth

Machine Sprite - Command

And each one has it's on specialties which is where I figure the bonuses/penalties should come from. So following the current thinking, I guess it's a matter of deciding what complex forms fit in to what categories.

[Kageryu]

Also, perhaps it might be better to come up with different categories for these complex forms, the programs themselves are broken up in to specific categories. Heh, it might turn in to more of a project than I'd initially thought... that's half the fun though, right?

[Ryu]

One look at the list of illusion programs tells me I the advantages need as much tought as the penalties.

Maybe you could give out boni for creating and registering sprites, but leave operations alone?

[Kageryu]

Deffinately turning in to a balancing problem. Think I'll look harder at the sprites them selves, see how they balance against each other.

[nick012000]

Stevebugge: I'd put Reality Filter into Health, since it's a buffing complex form, and that's where all the buffing spells are.

[Dranem]

Mentor Sprite... why is it I'm getting flashbacks of the show Reboot and the Command Com sprite Phong :D

[stevebugge]

[FrankTrollman]

The problems with giving mentor spirit bonuses to complex forms are numerous, and I just wouldn't do it. Give mentor bonuses to sprite types and skills, like a Thunderbird Mentor. Here's why:

1. Spells are cast one at a time. Complex Forms are not, you run lots of CFs simultaneusly. Your Armor is going at the same time your Stealth is and they stack. Really only Attack/Blackhammer are mutually exclusive on any action.

2. Buff Spells add their hits to your dicepool. CFs don't. When you cast an Armor spell, every hit you get on the spellcasting test adds to your Armor rating, meaning that a mentor bonus to the Armor spell adds 2/3 of a point of Armor. But your Armor CF actually is your Armor rating, so +2 to that is 3 times the size of the bonus provided by Raven.

3. Every Spell has an associated casting check. But that's not true for CFs. ECCM doesn't have a roll, it just increases the threshold for other peoples' jamming actions. Encrypt sets the threshold for Decrypt actions.

So yeah, +2 dice on a spellcasting test always means the same thing - 2 chances to increase increase the effectiveness of the spell. But +2 to the rating of a Complex Form doesn't always mean that, sometimes it means that you get +2 effect from the complex form, and sometimes it means that your opponent needs to come up with 2 (or even 4 in the case of Encrypt) more hits to effect you.

Giving out plusses to Complex Forms is completely inappropriate. Giving out bonuses to Sprites is just fine. So you can convert the following Mentors with no problem:

Dark King
Mountain
Rat
Sea
Thunderbird

All of the others in the basic book have no equivalent in the Technomancer realm, though it is obvious enough to me that you could use those 5 as templates to create a wide range of potential Mentors.

The Mountain conversion alone would be awesome - +2 Dice to Jamming tests, +2 to Crack Sprites.

-Frank

[stevebugge]

Those are really good points. Based on Frank's post I would say that all the brainstorming we've done should probably be playtested a bit before being incorporated in to anyone's actual game.

[Brahm]

[neko128]

In counter-point to something someone just said... While yes, an Armor CF is just your flat armor rating, not every technomancer will have every CF. Threading comes into play.

[NeoJudas]

I'll toss something out here for everyone else.

What are people doing so far with regards to pre-existing Sprites/Daemons? We've been tossing some ideas around in the games, up to and including self-contained/self-existent/self-aware Sprites/Daemons that "go free" at the time of the Singularity (or shortly thereafter). (no more on that subject as I don't want to wreck things for some players).

Anyway, we've considered "Free Sprites/Daemons" based upon those that an Otaku originally possessed. We've also bounced the idea around of those being "Agents" and that Sprites/Daemons do not have limits/problems with CF's/Abilities in the manner similar to their Otaku/Technomancer compilers.

So where I'm going with this is that perhaps an "origin story" to use for "Mentor Sprites" would be one or more of the pre-existing Sprites/Daemons assuming a new role.

As for comparing Complex Forms into "categories", while I wouldn't mind seeing that I do not think this would be a good idea. The reason for that is they are all technically Health and/or Manipulation-related effects as they either augment/detriment the user or they manipulate/alter how that user interacts with or is interacted upon by the Matrix.

BTW: I don't remember anything about "Medic" not being able to developed by a Technomancer who could then use it on something else such as a different user. Just a thought.