 Ares Predator IV and Gas-vent Systems, Can they go together? |
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 Mar 8 2006, 04:20 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 11-June 05 Member No.: 7,441  |
Remember kids, it doesn't matter if the weapon is silenced if your target's head explodes before the sound of the shot reaches him. (okay, maybe it does to his buddies, but it sounds better if you leave that fact out) |
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Mar 8 2006, 05:23 AM
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#27
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
In SR3 every 6 points of Strength counted as a point of RC. |
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Mar 8 2006, 06:14 AM
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#28
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Yeah. The less the opposition knows, the better, so it's nice to keep them from knowing exactly where the shot came from. The further away they are, the less they're likely to hear. If a .308 sounds like a .22 rifle at your position, they're unlikely to hear much in the way of muzzle blast when they're 400 meters out (for example). Just zzzzzziPUCK! So, really, if you have access to a suppressor in that kind of a situation, there's absolutely zero reason not to use one, subsonic ammo or not. And no, you don't necessarily need subsonic ammo for suppressed firearms, but the closer you're expecting to be to the target, the better it is to have it. At short range, the sound of the bullet going supersonic can sound pretty close to muzzle blast anyway. Other than that, what Aus said. |
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Mar 8 2006, 09:43 AM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 385 |
@Raygun: I didnīt mean that you need subsonics for a suppressor IRL but that the SR rules dont require that you use subsonics even though the effect(ruleswise) is that of a suppressed weapon with subsonics.
I shoot a rem700 AICS with suppressor quite often and almost never use subsonics, I mostly use them for fun and ballistic experiments. A suppressor equipped rifle using supersonic rounds almost always make the targets estimate the direction of the shooter 90 degrees wrong. |
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Mar 8 2006, 05:32 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 14-October 05 Member No.: 7,844 |
Akimbo's Tips: The best of the best Shadowrunners don't worry themselves about cool factors like dual weilding. A fancy runner is usually a dead runner. My first few years trying to dual weild almost got me killed... a lot... Besides, you can get virtually the same firepower with a submachien gun or an assault rifle. Either that or throw a ton of edge in your dual weild.
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Mar 8 2006, 08:46 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
Take an Adept Elf, with 7 Agility, 6 pistol, Spec in SA, 6 Magic, 2 Improved Reflexes, 6 Improved Ability:Pistols, 4 Edge. 7+6+2+6=21 Dice without edge, before spliting. Taking the right negative qualities can still give you enoung BP so have a well rounded character, who just happens to be one of the best people with guns. Thyme... |
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Mar 8 2006, 09:33 PM
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#32
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
IA is limited to 1.5 times the skill's rating, thanks to the errata.
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Mar 8 2006, 09:41 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
ok.... Take an Adept Elf, with 7 Agility, 6 pistol, Spec in SA, 6 Magic, 2 Improved Reflexes, 3 Improved Ability:Pistols, 3 Mystic Armor, 4 Edge. 7+6+2+3=18 Dice without edge, before spliting. That still leaves 9 dice for each pool. Which should be more than enough two hit anyone who is not full dodging or using edge. Thyme... |
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Mar 8 2006, 09:44 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 21-February 06 From: Lenexa, Kansas (Yes Kansas, we ain't all hicks y'all.) Member No.: 8,291 |
I was to understand that it was desirable to live fast, die young and, correct me if I am wrong, leave a good looking corpse. Waltermandias' Tip: The Shadowrunner who dies with the most awesome: wins. |
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Mar 8 2006, 09:50 PM
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#35
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Any player who wants to put that many of his character's points into doing that one thing that phenomenally well is welcome to do it. You know what's really amusing, though? Watching overspecced gunslingers trying to hit things further out than the 60m "extreme" range on a handgun :lick: |
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Mar 8 2006, 10:55 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 14-October 05 Member No.: 7,844 |
That's what a good rifle is for. You shouldn't be good at just one type of firearm.
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Mar 8 2006, 11:08 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
That is what friends and backup is for. This Character would be part of a group. Just make sure someone else in the group is good with assault rifles or that you have a mage with combat spells or both. If all the enemy are out side range, you have your team cover you while you close. With a small change in Adept Powers, 5 Magic into Improved Reflexes lvl 3, and 1 point into IA:Pistols Lvl 2. You get 7+6+2+2=17 dice to shoot, and you get 4 Initiative Passes. Spend up to three IP coving ground, and hitting the target will no longer be a problem. I make characters to work in teams. This adept elf you more than likely have at least 1 in Automatics(Spec Assualt Rifle), for at least 10 dices, he just wouldn't always carry an automatic weapon. If the run is going to call for distance shooting, you plan for it before hand. If the run doesn't call for distance shooting, make sure you have a mage for or least one person carrying an Assualt Rifle. Thyme... |
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Mar 8 2006, 11:08 PM
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#38
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
The player has already spent nearly 240 BP. He will be putting another 24 Build Points, 26 BP if he Specializes, into either Automatics or Longarms. So he is then looking at a 13 die pool even with the Specialization and only 140 Build Points left to buy gear, including weapons, and to try keep improve his character enough to keep from keeling over the first time someone shoots back, and maybe even being somewhat more useful than a dried out road apple when the situation doesn't call for shooting. Even without taking that second firearms Skill the 160 BP he has left is going to lead to a fairly vulnerable and one dimensional character because he hasn't yet built up his Intuition or Perception. Intuition for shooting through full cover (blind). Perception? Can't shoot what you don't notice. |
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Mar 8 2006, 11:09 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
I started my relpy before you posted, but got pulled away from the computer... |
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Mar 8 2006, 11:28 PM
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#40
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
See, we know this. But I can't count the number of players I've run into who do not know this. |
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Mar 8 2006, 11:59 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
24 BP into a second Firearm skill is a bit much. 6 or 10 at most. Automatics 1/2 (Assualt Rifle) Character is also an Elf, Spend 30 more on Charisma for a total of 6 Charisma. I'm not spending more than 10 to 15 BP on Gear. No Attributes below 3. At least 1 dodge, at least 1 perception, some social skills... Good Contants and glasses and Ear Piece. Sensitive System (15 BP) other negative Qualities that fit... I'm made a couple different characters that fit. I'm been making maining SR4 characters since I started reading the book. Thyme... |
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Mar 9 2006, 12:02 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
Keep in mind this is just one character idea... I know the importance of being able to use many different types of firearms, just because one character is a forces mainly on one firearm, does't mean all the characters I make do. Thyme... |
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Mar 9 2006, 12:26 AM
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#43
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Oops, missed the 5 BP for Adept before. So with Automatics(AR) 2(4) that brings you up to 251. The Charisma takes you to 271, and the rest of the Attributes at 3 and 15 Build Points of gear that takes you to 386. With Sensitive System and the point in Dodge and Perception you'll have enough for Influence Group 2 or a mix of 5 Skills. Even with Charisma 6 that isn't really a true Face, though he'd work as backup face. So now he can shoot dual pistols nearly as well as his opposition will be shooting a single pistol, is solidly competent with an AR, can chat people up, and likely will survive getting shot at 2 or 3 times with a pistol shot if he's wearing his maximum armor. Incidentally Reaction 3 + Body 3 = target, and with only 4 Perception dice shooting first might not happen as often as you'd like. |
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Mar 9 2006, 12:32 AM
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#44
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Nah, that wasn't a shot at you. Between my brother and I, we used to run with a fairly good selection of guys who could find ways to build characters that were so focused into doing whatever it was they did, they literally coudn't do anything else. We've all met these types. On a side note, a conversation between myself and one of my players recently came up with another Specialization of the Pistols skill... Pistols (Akimbo). Now, it doesn't matter what you're using, as long as you've got two of 'em. And when do you not? :) |
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Mar 9 2006, 01:04 AM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
Dual wielding the pistols is for when you can get away with it. Two shoots with one gun, each shoot having 19 dice (Smartlink), means you can bring plenty of hurting to others. Plus, as always, if you can't count on your back up, your as good as dead. Thyme |
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Mar 9 2006, 06:29 PM
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#46
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,950 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Did you remember the need to split your dice pool? |
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Mar 9 2006, 06:34 PM
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#47
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I think he means two Simple Actions using a SA weapon, not dual wielding. |
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Mar 9 2006, 06:38 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
Yup... The advantage of making a character good at dual wielding pistols, is that they are even better at not dual wielding pistols. Thyme |
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Mar 10 2006, 06:29 PM
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#49
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Going pistols akimbo in SR4 is effective in pretty much the same situations it's effective IRL... when you're reasonably skilled, and a few feet away from the target.
If there's no real penalties going on, you should hopefully have enough dice in your pool to beat out his Reaction roll, forcing him to resist a 5/-1 hit (or whatever your weapon of choice does) 4 times, instead of 2 with a couple of extra DV added on. The target being lightly- or un-armored helps a lot, too (as would loading APDS). In any other situation besides the "you're standing on his desk unloading into him" one, you're almost certainly better off firing one of those guns at a time. |
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Mar 10 2006, 07:19 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 100 Joined: 10-March 06 Member No.: 8,355 |
well the way they set it up now is if the damage code is less than the armor rating its stun damage anyways so you may as well just take out a taser and start firing
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