Submitting to Fan Pro, Submitting |
Submitting to Fan Pro, Submitting |
Oct 7 2003, 12:49 AM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 283 Joined: 30-September 03 From: Kenmore, NY, USA Member No.: 5,663 |
I was reading on the website: Shadowrun, that they call for proposals, so how does someone get to get notified about this stuff.
Just wondering, I would doubt that I would be ever considered. However I would still like to at least try once. So I would love information and I know a few of you guys are in the know so please help me out. |
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Oct 7 2003, 12:50 AM
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#2
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. If you want to submit a proposal, you submit one following the instructions given in the submission guidelines, and Rob will get in touch with you in due time.
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Oct 7 2003, 12:57 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 1-July 02 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,921 |
Well, the site pretty much says that from time to time, calls for submissions are held. "Do not begin to write until we ask you to." And it seems to discourage random submissions. "Never send us an unsolicited, complete or partially complete manuscript. The manuscript will be returned to you regardless of the legal permission or disclaimers you provide with it." So, the question is, when do you people want submissions? |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:02 AM
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#4
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
The submission guidelines talk about proposals, which is what everyone sends first to Rob when they have an idea for a product or know of a product they want to work on.
Typically, if Rob likes your proposal, even if he doesn't use it, he'll keep you appraised of future projects that require writers and ask you to submit proposals for them. |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:08 AM
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#5
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:15 AM
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#6
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
What's the question? That's exactly what you should submit to Rob.
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Oct 7 2003, 01:17 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 8-March 02 From: Tlön, Orbis Tertius Member No.: 2,211 |
In other words, do not make the punctuation error that occurs in this sentence:
:D |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:21 AM
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#8
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I have no question here, fiery one. I think others were confused as to the difference between submission and proposal. |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:21 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 283 Joined: 30-September 03 From: Kenmore, NY, USA Member No.: 5,663 |
Okay I know that is what is suppose to be proposed, and that's the way that it is to be presented.
I got confused by the: [Quote] Well, the site pretty much says that from time to time, calls for submissions are held. "Do not begin to write until we ask you to." And it seems to discourage random submissions. "Never send us an unsolicited, complete or partially complete manuscript. The manuscript will be returned to you regardless of the legal permission or disclaimers you provide with it." [Quote\] Which I thought meant don't give unless we say. And I don't want to annoy someone that I potential want to be on the good side of. All sourcebooks are done by multiple people so if the proposal would be accepted how does the sections splitting part generally work? Does FanPro ask its Free Lancers for help or what? |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:34 AM
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#10
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
And that's exactly what I thought you were confused by. ;-) |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:37 AM
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#11
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Not all sourcebooks are done by multiple authors, but very few are trusted to write an entire book on their own. If FanPro accepted the proposal and put the book on the production schedule, they would most likely ask other freelancers for input, and then do a second round of proposals -- more or less how it happened with the EuroSB crew. They submitted a huge proposal for the book, Rob talked to other people about the book, cemented down some ideas, then asked everyone [including the EuroSB crew and other freelancers] to re-submit proposals for the specific sections they wanted. |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:44 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 283 Joined: 30-September 03 From: Kenmore, NY, USA Member No.: 5,663 |
So what you guys are telling me is I can make a proposal, but not a submission?
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Oct 7 2003, 01:48 AM
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#13
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Right. See, they don't want you to get this massive body of work poured from your soul only to say, er change it all around and have you cry and slit your wrists. If you'd rather just write as things come to you, start a net book, live journal, or just make a thread here. If it turns into something, you can go back and make a proposal for it to send to FanPro. |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:53 AM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 8-March 02 From: Tlön, Orbis Tertius Member No.: 2,211 |
Putting your diamond-in-the-rough idea on the Internet is not a good idea if you expect it to get published for pay somewhere down the road. If your words and ideas are already in print (or pixel) in a public way, this raises some legal issues that are easier to avoid by just not publishing the material than they are to work through.
No, because a proposal is a form of a submission. You submit your proposal, and if they like it, it gets to become an adventure, sourcebook, or novel. What you should not do is write the adventure, sourcebook, or novel and then send it in. |
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Oct 7 2003, 01:54 AM
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#15
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
You make a proposal. If Rob goes "Cool! Write it!", you write it. |
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Oct 7 2003, 02:03 AM
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#16
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I though this is what happened with the EuroSB which is now a printed book called Shadows of Europe. Am I wrong? |
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Oct 7 2003, 02:05 AM
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#17
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Most of the EuroSB was only distributed to members of the project.
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Oct 7 2003, 02:06 AM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 8-March 02 From: Tlön, Orbis Tertius Member No.: 2,211 |
How much of the actual final text of SoE was created in the Forums? I recall that it was discussed in the abstract ("Wouldn't it be cool of the European players wrote a book?") and then moved into some kind of more tightly controlled environment, like a password-protected part of DS or a Yahoo board or something. The real drafting took place off-board. [Edit] Or Adam could just answer with the same thing in fewer words. :D |
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Oct 7 2003, 02:13 AM
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#19
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I see. Thanks for the heads up.
So put the submission manuscript in a file, encrypted, with Cascading Scramble IC and Databombs. |
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Oct 7 2003, 09:58 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Validating Posts: 186 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Member No.: 911 |
None of the text for Shadows Of Europe was created on the forums; what happened was that some of the ideas was thrown around in here. After a while it was taken to a "secure" yahoo-group and debated through; a lot of brainstorming took place there; we were also very focused on tying the different countries together; plot- and setting-wise. We created a proposal (with writing samples) where all us made our own little bit, so in essence we made a proposal for all of Europe. Rob accepted it and we then made the draft. During this process other freelancers was recruited, where the original contributor had fallen by the wayside or where something had to be covered that and nobody had said they'd do it. The rest is as they say...editing....:) :wavey: Adhoc |
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Oct 7 2003, 10:03 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 439 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .se Member No.: 625 |
a lot of editing ... but it should be done "soon", any day now :)
atleast that is the last i heard .... lets just hope we recognize it when it is done. |
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Oct 7 2003, 10:22 AM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488 |
The main reason that FanPro (or any publishing company and most TV networks and studios) don't want your manuscript isn't some caring and nurturing attitude about unduely wasting your time, it falls down to two things. 1) You write your full manuscript and send in your proposal. They accept it, and for your first draft you send in your already-completed manuscript. However, you haven't shown you can meet a deadline. You could've spent the last four years on that manuscript and when they want a second draft, you only have two months to write it in. So basically, you're screwed because you can't write that fast.
Here's the big number two reason, and basically THE reason why: LEGAL ISSUES. When you submit an unsolicited manuscript (that's any manuscript you weren't hired to write), you're basically sending them your intellectual property with no legal guarantees for them. Let's say you send in your manuscript and they read it. It just so happens that your proposal was very similar to Running Wild for example. Now FanPro is in a legal bind because if they release their Running Wild, you can sue them for plagerism. They have no way to prove they had this project in the works before you submitted it unless they announced it (which FanPro probably has about 20 or so projects in line waiting for their turn to get approved that we know nothing about because they may never see the light of day). Unless they state clearly that unsolicited manuscripts are discarded without being read (as FanPro states in their submission guidelines), they have no legal way to protect themselves because it's basically your word against theirs, you'll probably have proof you sent your script to them (if you were smart and sent it registered mail or at least return receipt, which you should always do when submitting proposals BTW to make sure they got it). FanPro will most likely win said lawsuit, but it will cost them loads in legal fees they could've simply avoided by not accepting unsolicited manuscripts. Basically, if you want to get published, here are the rules. BE PROFESSIONAL! Don't geek out in your proposal too much. Let them know you like the product and are knowledgable about it, but don't go off saying how much you love Harlequin and have sexual fantasies about Nadja Daviar. This also covers things like calling or emailing Rob every four days asking if he's read your proposal yet. WRITE WELL! If you can't string two words together, no matter how good your idea is, you won't sell it. And for god's sake SPELLCHECK!! I'm not kidding about this! Nothing screams "unprofessional" more than misspellings, since it's incredibly easy in this day and age to avoid those errors. Oh, and don't do stuff like "u" for "you" or "could of" instead of "could've". The Abstruse One |
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Oct 7 2003, 11:25 AM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
95% of the EuroSB development was carried out on a restricted Yahoogroup, to which only the actual contributors/writers had access. We did originally discuss a lot of stuff on Dumpshock (and Deep Resonance before it) but as soon as it became clear that we were going for a submission rather than a netbook everything was pulled into the group. Not that the original discussions would have help much. I still get a shock at some of the differences between our original pitch and the final thing.
Regarding the submission process: I've recently been asked about this by a number of people. The EuroSB route is atypical in that we put together a huge collective submission, but other than that we followed the guidelines on the official site. We sent in proposals (as outlined in the guidelines) for the various countries and I added a cover letter proposing the actual "SoE" book. Rob told us he was interested but all that he'd guarantee was that we'd get to pitch when the project came up in the Development schedule - on even ground with the regular freelancers. A whole year later Rob asked for our proposals (which in a couple of cases no longer bore any resemblance to the originals) as well as proposals from any freelancers who were interested. Most EuroSbers made it into the final project but Pistons, Steve Kenson, Jon Szeto, Gurth and Rob himself also contributed. What I can tell you is that submitting a full manuscript/draft (rather than what the guidelines tell you to) is a serious mistake for a number of reasons. All you need is for the Developer to say, "well I like all the ideas but I'd prefer it if you used another Voice for the piece" and you have to rewrite the whole thing from scratch. |
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Oct 7 2003, 09:08 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 26-February 02 From: United Kingdom Member No.: 195 |
I too am curious how this business actually works. To get noticed in the first place do you write a proposal for a whole book or just a section? A book may seem presumptive, especially as it will be 'taken away' from you if it actually goes into development, but a single section may not seem to be enough and what would you do a section of in the first place? If you have an idea for a book that you know is coming up could you submit for that or is it already too late by the time it's announced? Does a submission have to be relevant or could you submit just to get your writing noticed? (I recall someone submitting something that was rejected as the concept didn't fit with their current projects but he was kept on a list of possible contributors because they liked his idea/writing style. How common would that be? Is submitting anything in order to get noticed, to write something in the future largely unconnected with your original submission, a valid practice?!) So, how big, complete and relevant should a submission be? |
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Oct 7 2003, 09:28 PM
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#25
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Given that there are multiple books coming out that have short relatively independant sections - the State of the Art books, all of the Shadows of books, most of the Target books, etc, sending a proposal for just one section makes a lot of sense.
It depends on the book - it doesn't hurt to enquire, and not necessarily; a submission could just show off your ideas in general, writing and organizational skills, etc.
Size, structure, and suchlike are covered in the writers guidelines |
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