Over Powered Characters - Dumpshock Forums

Over Powered Characters

Taran View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 01:38 AM Post #26
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 7-July 03 Member No.: 4,891	Aw, come on, Shifter + Sacrificing is a nifty trick. Gives me a nice idea for an NPC. Anyway, I had a shifter PC in my game. I even let him cheat on attributes some. While he did some cool things, he was pretty drastically under-skilled for a character without equipment or magic.

Glyph View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 03:51 AM Post #27
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449	Shifters were hardly a min-maxers choice, although the powerful (but overrated) ability of regeneration probably made them attractive to munchkins. When you pay 25 points on top of paying for being awakened (and mundane shifters are really hosed), then have to buy 9, rather than 6, Attributes... well, the result is usually something other than "overpowered". The only really decent build is a fox shifter full shaman. You can max out the mental Attributes, low physical Attributes in both forms are actually plausible, and you can start out with a character who is all-around good at magic and has regeneration. Plus, the fox form is small and has an initiative boost. My favorite magic builds are still the elven shaman and the Priority: A resources dwarven sorcerer, but fox shifter shamans aren't that bad.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 04:00 AM Post #28
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	They get shafted by the fact that despite being foxes who can take human form, only the human form can use magic. ~J

Straw Man View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 04:04 AM Post #29
Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 26-March 05 Member No.: 7,239	Brightlights+Dikote Hand Razors+VenomSacks+Bliss+hyper combo: soak 3 seperate damage codes after the cyber-implant resolves, and take all subsequent actions at anywhere from +5-+10 TN. (Brightlights, Stun damage mod, phys damage mod, bliss effect, hyper effect) Yes, I'm a bad person. But at least I'm not breaking out the 19+1d6 Ambidextrous Skillwires 6/36MP monstrosity. That guy gets ugly when he's on combat drugs.

hyzmarca

Mar 31 2006, 04:10 AM

Post #30

Midnight Toker

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

They get shafted by the fact that despite being foxes who can take human form, only the human form can use magic.

~J

Shapeshifter magicians can use all of their abilities in either form, unless they take a gesture or incantation geas that their animal form cannot fullfill. . It is Shapeshifter Adepts whose powers are limited to human form.

Lindt View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 04:30 AM Post #31
Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105	HA! All I can invision is the little red fox sitting on the chair summoning a high force nature spirit... So I take my comment about shifter-adepts back. They get pooched.

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 04:34 AM Post #32
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Gah, you're right. My error. ~J

Foreigner

Mar 31 2006, 01:52 PM

Post #33

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Lindt)

HA! All I can invision is the little red fox sitting on the chair summoning a high force nature spirit...
So I take my comment about shifter-adepts back. They get pooched.

Lindt:

Very punny! Very punny!

Or was that bit ("fox {shifters}....get pooched.") unintentional?

:P

BTW: It's "ENvision", not "INvision".

ACK! Proofreader training again.

--Foreigner

Lindt View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 02:29 PM Post #34
Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105	:D Envision... envision... I am why the grammer checkers was invented.

nezumi

Mar 31 2006, 02:47 PM

Post #35

Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

Not really. Is that init score in human form? How many skills does this guy have? Awakened or does he just have a massive "dual-natured and can't do squat about it" flaw for free?

An adept. That was in animal form (the GM agreed that since the animal form is the NATURAL form, adept powers should apply to that form. So at that point I realize the character isn't strictly canon.)

I also noted the character had the 'lightning reflexes' edge. This is SR2 so I don't remember if that would have added to the initiative or not. By SR3, it wouldn't work any more.

nick012000

Mar 31 2006, 02:50 PM

Post #36

Running Target

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 30 2006, 08:11 PM)

QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Mar 30 2006, 07:55 PM)

Shifters only get the shaft if your GM doesn't allow PCs to take Sacrificing. If you can get that metamagic an approperatly minmaxed Shifter magician can tear through most opposition without breaking a sweat.

And if you allow the Path of the Righ, an appropriately minmaxed Full Mage can tear through most opposition. Likewise for PCs with Potency.

You get the idea.

~J

Well, if you make the player buy the Potency with Karma at the same cost as Initiation, it'll work out to about the same thing. You get the +1 Magic just the same, a bonus die in your Potency pool instead of your Astral pool, and a social stigma from the acts you've performed (and possibly a bounty on your head, depending on the type of Threat you are).

Just replace the ordeals and metamagic groups with appropriate Potency-increasing acts.

toturi View Member Profile	Mar 31 2006, 02:59 PM Post #37
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187	Dude, don't make shapeshifters if you want to min-max. Get yourself a free spirit with low Spirit Energy Hidden Essense instead. Of course, there's always the Background 10 virtuso initiated adept. Not to mention the Background 10 virtuso initiated magician adept. Now that's min-maxing.

Bodak

Apr 24 2006, 09:16 AM

Post #38

Moving Target

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QUOTE (hyzmarca)

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 30 2006, 11:00 PM)

They get shafted by the fact that despite being foxes who can take human form, only the human form can use magic.

~J

Shapeshifter magicians can use all of their abilities in either form, unless they take a gesture or incantation geas that their animal form cannot fullfill. . It is Shapeshifter Adepts whose powers are limited to human form.

Shapeshifter full magicians cannot Astrally Project while in animal form; only in human form.

De Badd Ass View Member Profile	Apr 24 2006, 09:32 AM Post #39
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474	It's impossible for EVERY character to be overpowered. That's implied by the prefix OVER. Maybe we should put all these characters in a ring, and crown the one that survives. Nevermind. FASA tried that already. It's called BattleTech. Anybody see the movie Robot Jox? That one wins the prize for worst movie derived from a game or comic book. EDIT: I stand corrected. They made a sequel. As I didn't see it (and never will, cause I didn't get my money back from the first one) I have no idea if this one resembles BattleTech at all.

SL James View Member Profile	Apr 24 2006, 10:27 AM Post #40
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473	You obviously haven't seen the Hasselhoff made-for-tv Nick Fury movie. Compared to that, Robot Jox is Lawrence of Arabia.

hyzmarca

Apr 24 2006, 12:36 PM

Post #41

Midnight Toker

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QUOTE (Bodak)

QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Mar 31 2006, 04:10 AM)

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 30 2006, 11:00 PM)

They get shafted by the fact that despite being foxes who can take human form, only the human form can use magic.

~J

Shapeshifter magicians can use all of their abilities in either form, unless they take a gesture or incantation geas that their animal form cannot fullfill. . It is Shapeshifter Adepts whose powers are limited to human form.

Shapeshifter full magicians cannot Astrally Project while in animal form; only in human form.

Which makes no sense. Of course, this limitation is explicitly limitd to full magicians which means that shapeshifters who want to project in animal form should just be aspected magicians instead and save a few BP.

And yes, a certain interpertation of the rules allows aspected Shapeshifters to project. According to Critters any dual natured critter with magic skills can astrally project. Sahpeshifters are critters.

Bodak

Apr 24 2006, 01:31 PM

Post #42

Moving Target

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QUOTE (hyzmarca)

Of course, this limitation is explicitly limitd to full magicians which means that shapeshifters who want to project in animal form should just be aspected magicians instead and save a few BP.

Aspected magicians / shamen cannot project, only perceive.

hyzmarca

Apr 24 2006, 02:27 PM

Post #43

Midnight Toker

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QUOTE (Critters p.5)

Dual beings with magical skills are capable of astral projection.

The rule doesn't differentiate between aspected and full magicians. All dual beings with any magical skills are capable of astral projection by default. Shapeshifters are dual beings.

Platinum

Apr 24 2006, 02:33 PM

Post #44

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QUOTE (nezumi)

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 30 2006, 07:38 PM)

Not really. Is that init score in human form? How many skills does this guy have? Awakened or does he just have a massive "dual-natured and can't do squat about it" flaw for free?

An adept. That was in animal form (the GM agreed that since the animal form is the NATURAL form, adept powers should apply to that form. So at that point I realize the character isn't strictly canon.)

I also noted the character had the 'lightning reflexes' edge. This is SR2 so I don't remember if that would have added to the initiative or not. By SR3, it wouldn't work any more.

Nezumi, did you have a chance to transcribe this beast yet? I am guessing that this char is not cannon. Lightning reflexes doesn't add dice, and the reaction bonus doesn't add to initiative.

In SR2 if you used the priorites system shifters were tough. Paying for attributes twice is one of the stupidest rules I have seen and I just disregarded it, it should be simple. you have your attribs, and you gain modifiers in shifted form.

How long till they just give physads get the regen power? 6 magic points for regen.

nezumi

Apr 24 2006, 02:42 PM

Post #45

Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;

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QUOTE (Platinum)

In SR2 if you used the priorites system shifters were tough. Paying for attributes twice is one of the stupidest rules I have seen and I just disregarded it, it should be simple. you have your attribs, and you gain modifiers in shifted form.

Since you've asked, I will go ahead and do it (now that I know where the sheet is).

The paying for physical attributes twice is an SR3, not SR2 rule. In SR2 you only paid for them once, however you didn't get regeneration in human form and it was slower.

Trax View Member Profile	Apr 24 2006, 08:56 PM Post #46
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 2-January 05 From: Quebec Member No.: 6,924	My GM once told me of a party member who's Ork starting character had a body of 20.

Foreigner

Apr 24 2006, 11:44 PM

Post #47

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

And if you allow the Path of the Righ, an appropriately minmaxed Full Mage can tear through most opposition. Likewise for PCs with Potency.

You get the idea.

~J

Kagetenshi:

I read through that part of MITS earlier--mainly because I couldn't remember what the "Path of the Righ" was--and the book said that it was intended for NPCs only.

Not that I'm arguing, mind you. GM's discretion, and all that.

Hmm. I wonder if an assassin PC could follow that Path? :P

--Foreigner

Kagetenshi

Apr 24 2006, 11:58 PM

Post #48

Manus Celer Dei

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QUOTE (Foreigner)

Kagetenshi:

I read through that part of MITS earlier--mainly because I couldn't remember what the "Path of the Righ" was--and the book said that it was intended for NPCs only.

You have discovered my point.

~J

Foreigner View Member Profile	Apr 25 2006, 12:41 AM Post #49
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 22-November 02 From: Gordonsville, Virginia, U.S.A. (or C.A.S.) Member No.: 3,630	Kagetenshi: OUCH! So that's what was poking me--I thought that one of my cats was trying to get my attention.... Feeding time again, or something. :P --Foreigner

Bodak

May 3 2006, 04:12 AM

Post #50

Moving Target

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QUOTE (hyzmarca)

QUOTE (Critters p.5)

Dual beings with magical skills are capable of astral projection.

The rule doesn't differentiate between aspected and full magicians. All dual beings with any magical skills are capable of astral projection by default. Shapeshifters are dual beings.

But much like how the PC ghoul type is a nerfed version of the NPC Critter, PC shapeshifters differ from the Critter shapeshifters. Quoting from Critters is perfectly appropriate when discussing a Critter. But when debating a PC ghoul or shifter, MitS's ruling does differentiate between aspected and full magicians.

QUOTE (MitS p36)

Shapeshifter full magicians can only use astral projection when in human form. Their statistics while astrally projecting are equal to their human Mental Attributes, as normal.

You cannot seriously rule that a Magic:E combat shapeshifter with 1 rank in Aura Reading can astrally project at any time in either form whereas a Magic:A full mage with Sorcery6 and Conjuring6 is restricted to only projecting when in human form? Clearly PC shapeshifters are different to NPC Critters. The Critter is a creature with its attributes and monster stats and class abilities and everything all rolled into one, and as such the package-deal includes projection. A PC gets to choose its stats, and takes on a class profile and decide how magically active the character will be. If they choose a class incapable of projection, then they have a shapeshifter incapable of projection.

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