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The Jopp
post Mar 13 2006, 02:01 PM
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Ok, this might be a bit of a stretch but bear with me on this one.

Now, first you get yourself the standard BTL of your choice – remove the automatic burnout and replace it with an infinite loop option instead. Then we upload it into on of our agents. We hack into the targets commlink and insert the agent. The agent uploads the BTL into the targets commlink.

We have now delivered BTL straight into a targets running commlink, where the program is running active.

What happens, let’s see…

1. If the target has a cyber commlink then he can be affected by simsense due to the built in sim module and is in happy-happy-joy-joy land.

2. Same as 1 if the character has a sim-module and external commlink.

3. If no sim module is in use the program does nothing.

Is it just me or would this be a very useful “attack” program. Yea, ok, we need to hack the commlink first but it is a nice way of getting rid of annoying hackers.

For the real evil players/GM’s amongst us we might just have the agent dumping several BTL’s at once with opposing effects to make the targets experience REALLY funky. :grinbig:
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Ravor
post Mar 13 2006, 02:45 PM
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In order to actually be effective, wouldn't the target also have to be in Hot Sim Mode?

Also wouldn't the target get a roll similair to Black IC attacks to see if he was able to Jack Out, ect?

But yes, it sounds like a rather effective Psych Weapon in the right situations.
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Brahm
post Mar 13 2006, 02:54 PM
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I was under the impression that you can step out of a BTL whenever you want? Beattleheads don't want to jack out, but as long as the target of your maliciousness isn't Addicted that shouldn't be an issue. The worst I could see is they have to make an Addiction test to turn it off, and as mentioned only if they are running Hot Sim to start with.

EDIT An Addiction test is Willpower + Logic Test, Theshold 1. Page 247-248.
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The Jopp
post Mar 13 2006, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Ravor)
In order to actually be effective, wouldn't the target also have to be in Hot Sim Mode?

Ah, yes, I forgot that part.
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The Jopp
post Mar 13 2006, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Ravor)
But yes, it sounds like a rather effective Psych Weapon in the right situations.

It could be rather useful if you want to create some random chaos, and what happens if you use a BTL that switch sensory input? Smelling colours, seeing tactile impressions? The target would get some hefty modifiers just to focus enough and do something about the situation.

Some insidious BTL option in infinite loop (Tripchips in this case)

synaesthesia
Endless mindblowing orgasm
Being on fire
Drowning
Being eaten alive by ants
System switch (visual system methaphor switches to a new display every 0,5 seconds)
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emo samurai
post Mar 13 2006, 04:21 PM
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Could you turn on Hot Sim mode if you hacked into their comlink?
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Brahm
post Mar 13 2006, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai @ Mar 13 2006, 11:21 AM)
Could you turn on Hot Sim mode if you hacked into their comlink?

They would have to have a Hot Sim capable system which requires a hardware modification that is illegal is most jurisdictions. If the hardware has been modified it then depends on whether the modification was designed to be selectable using a soft switch or on a physical hardware switch only. If soft switch then yes, you could remove the protection of Cold Sim remotely. I know this has been discussed here before, regarding turning on the VR to start with too. Mostly it is a GM call, but quite likely yes on both of these.
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The Jopp
post Mar 13 2006, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
Could you turn on Hot Sim mode if you hacked into their comlink?

Most likely since the Hotsim modification is a modification on the actual sim module. An EDIT or COMMAND action should do it.
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hyzmarca
post Mar 13 2006, 04:38 PM
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Kind of makes you miss the old chipjacks and datajacks when all the ASIST processing was done by the chip and you just had to slot it into your victim. Of course, with trodes being able to run Hot Sim now that technique is even more useful than before. You just need bulkier equipment.
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mfb
post Mar 13 2006, 04:42 PM
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the thing is, if you do this in combat, you're effectively trying to force an outside simsense feed into the target's sensorium. that's going to be read as an attack by anybody on the receiving end, and they're going to attempt to defend against it; and since it's so similar to a normal attack anyway, i'd treat it as one in the rules. if you're sneaking the program into their comm while they're unaware, you'd be better off just loading it with an actual attack program unless you have a specific reason to not want to kill them.
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Dissonance
post Mar 13 2006, 05:34 PM
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In Sprawl Survival Guide, the looped-simsense is how they keep some prisoners in line. Having blissed out meat is easier to deal with than unruly, riot-y prisoners.
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Rooks
post Mar 13 2006, 05:57 PM
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Thats some prision you mean if I get to kill a guy I get to live forever and ever in infinate although synthetic happiness?
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 13 2006, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (The Jopp)
Most likely since the Hotsim modification is a modification on the actual sim module. An EDIT or COMMAND action should do it.

As already pointed out, it wouldn't.

Keep in mind that cyberware is ultimately controlled by the DNI.
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Dissonance
post Mar 13 2006, 06:17 PM
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Why not, Rooks? The cost of one chip and a used cybernetic chipjack is far cheaper than the cost of all the other recreational stuff, not to mention the fact that you've got a bunch of regular zombies to deal with means you can skimp a bit on the physical security.

Not to mention skimping on food quality, and so on, and so forth. Who wants sloppy joes made out of Joe SINless?
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neko128
post Mar 13 2006, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Mar 13 2006, 06:27 PM)
Most likely since the Hotsim modification is a modification on the actual sim module. An EDIT or COMMAND action should do it.

As already pointed out, it wouldn't.

Keep in mind that cyberware is ultimately controlled by the DNI.

An Edit wouldn't be able to trigger the Hot Sim module? Errr, why not? If it's controlled by the DNI, all that means is that you're giving it mental commands instead of physical ones. It still has to be activated and de-activated, and you can do that while using it.

The biggest problem I see with trying to force someone into a BTL nightmare is the fact that they CAN jack out. Then again, Black IC "jams open" the connection, so this obviously is not a foolproof escape clause.
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Brahm
post Mar 13 2006, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (Rooks @ Mar 13 2006, 12:57 PM)
Thats some prision you mean if I get to kill a guy I get to live forever and ever in infinate although synthetic happiness?

There are debilating simsense loops other than happiness. Nothingness would be one of the particularly cruel ones.

In SR4 even if you are VR, whether or not you are locked in because the hardware you were hooked up to has lacks the means to turn it off, you can still will yourself switch your perception to your meat eyes. That is new. But you suffer some substantial penalties, and unless the voluntary muscle safety is overriden your meat body is still limp while you are in VR.
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Dissonance
post Mar 13 2006, 08:11 PM
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"Here's your choices. 20 years of an unlit, locked coffin, or 20 years of semi-pleasant personafix. Either way, see you in 20 years."
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mfb
post Mar 13 2006, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Dissonance)
Who wants sloppy joes made out of Joe SINless?
hey, sign me up.

considering that simsense can be used to edit memory, i'd be surprised if simsense prisons didn't inflict psychological conditioning on the inmates. it'd be more expensive for the prison--but they'd also see a lot more business, so it'd ultimately be more profitable. i mean, if you're a corporation who's caught some shadowrunner, would you rather a) pay put the runner to sleep for 20 years, or b) pay to put the runner to sleep for five years, and have him wake up a loyal asset for your corporation?
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Dissonance
post Mar 13 2006, 08:44 PM
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That reminds me of the machines they had in ONE of the books that were almost for the explicit purpose.

In short, as far as SR3 went, brainwashing machines _are_ canon. Combine that with liberal use of Corporate Conditioning, Personafix, and you could have youself an interesting resource.

Don't be surprised to end up fighting a captured version of yourself on another character, I suppose?
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neko128
post Mar 13 2006, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (Dissonance)
That reminds me of the machines they had in ONE of the books that were almost for the explicit purpose.

In short, as far as SR3 went, brainwashing machines _are_ canon. Combine that with liberal use of Corporate Conditioning, Personafix, and you could have youself an interesting resource.

Don't be surprised to end up fighting a captured version of yourself on another character, I suppose?

Shadowbeat. Had a whole chapter on skills and tests and equipment for brainwashing people, editing their memories, etcetera. Very amusing read.
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mfb
post Mar 13 2006, 11:19 PM
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that information was updated to SR3 in Cannon Companion.
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hyzmarca
post Mar 14 2006, 02:09 AM
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QUOTE (Brahm)
QUOTE (Rooks @ Mar 13 2006, 12:57 PM)
Thats some prision you mean if I get to kill a guy I get to live forever and ever in infinate although synthetic happiness?


In SR4 even if you are VR, whether or not you are locked in because the hardware you were hooked up to has lacks the means to turn it off, you can still will yourself switch your perception to your meat eyes. That is new. But you suffer some substantial penalties, and unless the voluntary muscle safety is overriden your meat body is still limp while you are in VR.

It isn't new. In fact, you could do even better in SR3. You could fully percieve both realities at once in SR3 but took a +4 TN penality (+8 if you haden't removed the RAS override).

Ahh, the joys of corrective subliminal condtioning.
"I was going to shoot motherfragger but then I got this overwhealming urge to knit."
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