IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> We're Spec-Ops Dude!, Some Character Help Needed
Leviathan
post Mar 14 2006, 03:27 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 145
Joined: 6-May 04
Member No.: 6,305



Ok, I've played shadowrun for about a year, but have very little mage experience, so I could use a hand working out my character for a campaign that my GM will be running in a few months (yes, I'm jumping in early so I can try and get this guy built properly).

My Character:
Dwarvish Shotgun-Toting Dragonslayer Shamen

The Campaign:
We're an Ares Spec-Ops team, a world-wide response unit, sent from hot-spot to hot-spot anywhere Ares thinks we need to be. DM said "Think of the military units from Half-life, Resident Evil or Doom (the movie)."
In his own words, this is going to be an "Insane campaign"

The Special Rules:
130 build points
*All* Availability restrictions are OFF at Character Generation
An extra :nuyen: 2million at chargen
Can 'buy' initiation at chargen for :nuyen: 500k per rank
The 'starting skill/force of 6' rule doesn't apply for us

Stats that I have worked out:
Attributes
Body 6
Strength 3
Quickness 6
Charisma 6
Intelligence 6
Willpower 8

Edges/Flaws
Attribute Bonus - Willpower
Sense of Direction
Focused Concentration
Sensitive Neural Structure
Allergy - Uncommon & Moderate - Soy

Skills
Staffs - 3
Stealth - 3
Athletics - 5
Sorcery - 6
Conjuring - 6
Shotguns - 6
Etiqutte - 6

Ok, thats all I have worked out so far. I was thinking of dumping a lot of cash into extra power points, purchasing a few Foci (though not totally sure what to get, other than a couple of Sustaining Foci), and equipment such as hardened military grade security armor.

Does anyone have some ideas/advice for building my character? I've only played a mage for one session, and never played in a campaign even close to this level of poweredness.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shadowfire
post Mar 14 2006, 03:41 AM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: 15-June 05
From: Portland, Or.
Member No.: 7,447



special ops rock... thats my fav. archetype.. in fact i have been told that i am surprisingly excellent at think like a real covert spec op... i've done things so well in a game or two that even the gm had to shake his head and wonder how the drek i get away with this stuff
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glyph
post Mar 14 2006, 03:47 AM
Post #3


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449



Specific spell foci give the most bang for the buck, but for a full mage, I would probably go with a nice big power focus, which can add dice to your sorcery and spellcasting. Definitely get at least a grade or two of initiation. Invoking is a must-have, especially for a shaman. And if skills are not capped at 6, then why are yours? You should want at least your bread-and-butter skills (sorcery and conjuring) up as high as they can go at char-gen.

For the shotgun, I would go with an Enfield with maxed-out recoil compensation (Gas-vent IV, shock pad, and custom grip), APDS rounds, and an underbarrel grenade launcher with an assortment of the nastier mini-grenades. For more "subtlety", a Defiance T-250 with an extended laser sight, a sound suppressor, and shock lock rounds.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Leviathan
post Mar 14 2006, 04:00 AM
Post #4


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 145
Joined: 6-May 04
Member No.: 6,305



QUOTE (Glyph)
Specific spell foci give the most bang for the buck, but for a full mage, I would probably go with a nice big power focus, which can add dice to your sorcery and spellcasting. Definitely get at least a grade or two of initiation. Invoking is a must-have, especially for a shaman. And if skills are not capped at 6, then why are yours? You should want at least your bread-and-butter skills (sorcery and conjuring) up as high as they can go at char-gen.

For the shotgun, I would go with an Enfield with maxed-out recoil compensation (Gas-vent IV, shock pad, and custom grip), APDS rounds, and an underbarrel grenade launcher with an assortment of the nastier mini-grenades. For more "subtlety", a Defiance T-250 with an extended laser sight, a sound suppressor, and shock lock rounds.

I thought about a nice strong Power Focus. Only problem is the bonding costs...

The reason my skills are capped at six is because I'd put this much of the character together before I was told that we didn't have the six cap ;).

I'll definitely be taking one grade of initiation, but I think a second grade wouldn't be as cost-effective.

For metamagic I was actually thinking of Reflecting, since by the look of the rules for Invoking it'd still be damned hard to summon a decent force Great Form spirit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tisoz
post Mar 14 2006, 06:15 AM
Post #5


Free Spirit
*******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,944
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Bloomington, IN UCAS
Member No.: 1,920



In all the magically active characters I have ever played, I have never bonded a Specific Spell focus, nor a Spirit Focus. The Power focus can fill all these uses.

As a shaman, grab Invoking. As a combat mage, grab Channeling, and Shielding. 500K per Initiation is high, but you need Invoking. Initiate grade gets subtracted when using Invoking and Channeling, and determines how well Shielding is going to help, so I would get at least three initiations. The only reason I can see for not getting a fourth is if you need the money o get a Trauma Damper.

The Trauma Damper means you need 2 less successes for every drain test, and can conjure Watchers without needing to roll drain. Being the Combat mage, then you may as well get a smartlink and maybe a datajack to cybernetically run stuff others can afford to implant. (Like comm gear, radio, telephone, etc..)

So 3 levels of Initiation, a bit of cyber, and a Power focus, Or 4 levels of Initiation, no Power focus and the Trauma Damper if you have the resources.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SL James
post Mar 14 2006, 08:29 AM
Post #6


Shadowrun Setting Nerd
*******

Group: Banned
Posts: 3,632
Joined: 28-June 05
From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower.
Member No.: 7,473



QUOTE (Leviathan)
The Campaign:
We're an Ares Spec-Ops team, a world-wide response unit, sent from hot-spot to hot-spot anywhere Ares thinks we need to be. DM said "Think of the military units from Half-life, Resident Evil or Doom (the movie)."
In his own words, this is going to be an "Insane campaign"

It's called Firewatch, BTW. It's a Knight Errant unit.

QUOTE

The Special Rules:
130 build points
*All* Availability restrictions are OFF at Character Generation
An extra  :nuyen: 2million at chargen
Can 'buy' initiation at chargen for  :nuyen: 500k per rank
The 'starting skill/force of 6' rule doesn't apply for us

Why don't you just use the high-end rules in Mr J's LBB with 150 BP?

Then add 75 or 100 karma. You won't be "Double Take" Ghost insane (they have at least 300 karma each if very, very well-designed), can get 2 million nuyen at chargen, will have enough BP to max out attributes at 6 (really, worry about skills) and get an assload of good to high skill ratings, and initiation is cheaper than the BP cost of 500k (or would be except that the free 2mil is just lame).

I'd also suggest going the 150 BP/75-100 karma route because if you get karma, you will get Karma Pool and can get Team Karma Pool.

QUOTE


Stats that I have worked out:
Attributes
Body 6
Strength 3


Add at least one point of strength from body, since your PC will be wearing at least 6/6 armor.

QUOTE
Edges/Flaws
Allergy - Uncommon & Moderate - Soy

What kind of SR game are you playing where soy is "uncommon?"

QUOTE
Skills
Staffs - 3
Stealth - 3
Athletics - 5
Sorcery - 6
Conjuring - 6
Shotguns - 6
Etiqutte - 6


*blinks*

Uh... No.

See These guys? Look at the Shared Skills.

QUOTE
Shared Skills
Assault Rifles: 6
Athletics: 5
Biotech(First Aid): 2/4
Bike: 3
Car: 3
Edged Weapons(Cougar Knife): 4/6
Etiquette(Military): 3/5
Heavy Weapons: 4
Military Hand-to-Hand: 7
Pistols: 6
Small Unit Tactics: 6
Submachine Guns: 5
Stealth: 8
Throwing Weapons: 4

Magical Support Skills
Aura Reading: 6
Conjuring: 5
Sorcery: 7


Notice anything missing in yours? Only one gun skill. No unarmed. No first aid. No vehicle skills. Stealth 3. No Aura Reading. No Centering (WTF? If you can be initiated at chargen, why the fuck aren't you getting Centering /Centering Skill at 8/8 to go with it?). Nothing that really indicates to me any interest whatsoever in building skills real Specfor have. Pthbbbt. *gives a thumbs down*

I think Elissa blew it by not giving the Ghost mage Centering, and so of these:
QUOTE
Metamagic(Grade 4 Initiate): Masking, Quickening, Shielding, Invoking

I'd switch out Invoking for Centering.

If your starting skills aren't capped at 6, then why the hell not buy at least Sorcery at something > 6? With your PC's stats, the BP cost would be 93 if you cap Unarmed at 6 (it'd be lower if Str was > 3). But this is a absolute best-case, and a Firewatch trooper would not have Stealth 8 (6 maybe, not 8) or something else (Switch Heavy Weapons to Shotgun, etc.) Your skills are too narrow.

You should have two mages on your team, one hooked up with a Prometheus Fiber-Optic Network setup that can be pre-positioned by your Sneak Adept (you have one, right?) or piloted in a drone by your Rigger (see Sneak Adept) and mass-damage spells (so some spell foci, fetishes, and Centering really help) and/or spells like Confusion, Control Thoughts, Trid Phantasm, etc. The second one is to cast and sustain Combat Sense, Enhance Aim and Improved Invisibility (buy a sustaining focus or three) on your teammates so that anyone not stunned or killed by the first mage is shot down like a dog by the Large Men With Guns. Some sort of silence spell might also be useful.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Birdy
post Mar 14 2006, 09:14 AM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 637
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,528



If you are playing military units like in the mentioned films I recommend disadvantages like

Incompetence: Tactics
Incompetence: Perception
Incompetence: Firearms
Quirk: Wears unsuitable but sexy(female) / muscle revealing(male) clothing

and skills like

Being killed by monsters 5
Running into stupid ambushed 3
Taking needless heroics 5
Using senseless burstfire 6
Dying really messy 4
Giving heroic monologes upon death 3
Ironic one-lines 3

Add in attributes like

Bod 7
Str 7
Spd 5
Int 2
Wil 2
Cha 3-6


And you are set.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Leviathan
post Mar 14 2006, 10:40 AM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 145
Joined: 6-May 04
Member No.: 6,305



tisoz - The cost is actually 500k per initiate *Grade*, NOT per initiation. So initiate grade 1 costs 500k, initiate grade 2 costs 1million, etc.

SL James -
1) Dont ask me why we aren't running a different set of rules, I'm not the GM.
2) I am keeping body high because in spite of how high your armor is, being levitated by an enemy mage through a monofilament wire fence *HURTS* (and yes, this has happened)
3) Considering that the examples of 'common' is things like Air and Sunlight, I think soy better counts as uncommon
4) See that skill list you posted? How the fuck am I supposed to have that many skills? Those skills and stats that I posted there fill out 130bp
5) I dont know what the rest of the team is, it hasn't been assembled yet
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Oracle
post Mar 14 2006, 10:48 AM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 934
Joined: 26-August 05
From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover
Member No.: 7,624



QUOTE (Leviathan @ Mar 14 2006, 11:40 AM)
3) Considering that the examples of 'common' is things like Air and Sunlight, I think soy better counts as uncommon

Soy is the basic ingredience of most food in the 21st century / sixth world. That means it is common.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nick012000
post Mar 14 2006, 11:05 AM
Post #10


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,283
Joined: 17-May 05
Member No.: 7,398



Drop Ettiquette down. You don't really need it all that much. Use it to buy up Unarmed Combat or Stealth.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tisoz
post Mar 14 2006, 02:13 PM
Post #11


Free Spirit
*******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,944
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Bloomington, IN UCAS
Member No.: 1,920



Damn...

Then buy karma at 25,000 :nuyen: a point and initiate that way. ;)

I really do not know what to say. The GM sounds like he wants to magically screw you.

Shamen really need Invoking, I totally disagree with SL James here. Quickening without karma is like tits on a bull. Channeling will let you get the spirits powers for ten minutes to an hour, usually plenty of time going into combat, and you get immunity to normal weapons, improved physical stats, and unlimited uses of of normal spirit powers. I would have had you make an ally if you had the karma.

In light of your GM using magic tricks against you, Sheilding seems even more importan, but like I said, evidently he knows how he is going to screw the party and doesn't want magic to be anywhere near the tech advantage he is handing out.

See about buying karma. If not, start seeing about buying tech ways to counter magic. Buy several Nimu Salamanders and FAB III, biofiber...

How are you getting spells? Just out of starting resources?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Leviathan
post Mar 14 2006, 03:15 PM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 145
Joined: 6-May 04
Member No.: 6,305



QUOTE (tisoz)
Damn...

Then buy karma at 25,000 :nuyen: a point and initiate that way. ;)

I really do not know what to say. The GM sounds like he wants to magically screw you.

Shamen really need Invoking, I totally disagree with SL James here. Quickening without karma is like tits on a bull. Channeling will let you get the spirits powers for ten minutes to an hour, usually plenty of time going into combat, and you get immunity to normal weapons, improved physical stats, and unlimited uses of of normal spirit powers. I would have had you make an ally if you had the karma.

In light of your GM using magic tricks against you, Sheilding seems even more importan, but like I said, evidently he knows how he is going to screw the party and doesn't want magic to be anywhere near the tech advantage he is handing out.

See about buying karma. If not, start seeing about buying tech ways to counter magic. Buy several Nimu Salamanders and FAB III, biofiber...

How are you getting spells? Just out of starting resources?

I'll have a chat with my GM and see if he's willing to alter the mage rules.
Any reccomendations for what alterations would bring magic up on a par with technology in this case?

I know about invoking and quickening, but what is Channeling and where is it printed?

As to getting spells, as far as I know the only option I have is buying more magic points (25k each) as normal.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lindt
post Mar 14 2006, 03:57 PM
Post #13


Man In The Machine
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,264
Joined: 26-February 02
From: I-495 S
Member No.: 1,105



As a shamen, with the ability to be an initiate, either envoking or channeling is a MUST. Being able to call 2 nature spirits is a major useability jump.

I agree with SL that your starting skills are... lacking. It looks like typical NPC stats. And your playing a dragon slayer, ditch staff and take edged weapons like a REAL man. And whats with not having a B/R skill for your main weapon of choice?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Leviathan
post Mar 14 2006, 04:28 PM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 145
Joined: 6-May 04
Member No.: 6,305



QUOTE (Lindt)
As a shamen, with the ability to be an initiate, either envoking or channeling is a MUST. Being able to call 2 nature spirits is a major useability jump.

I agree with SL that your starting skills are... lacking. It looks like typical NPC stats. And your playing a dragon slayer, ditch staff and take edged weapons like a REAL man. And whats with not having a B/R skill for your main weapon of choice?

As has been stated, I *DONT* have enough skill points to cover everything, those skills I have listed are my full allotment of 35 skill points. I'v managed to squeeze out another 5 points from the build, which will be upping my Sorcery to 8, not sure what else.

I honestly do not know how you guys expect me to have huge skill lists, I dont have enough build points to pull off what you're asking.

Also, again I'll ask where is Channeling from?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Edward
post Mar 14 2006, 04:31 PM
Post #15


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,073
Joined: 23-August 04
Member No.: 6,587



Talk to your GM about allowing some of that 2mill to be traded in for karma. As a mage karma is far more important than cash. 25000 is what you pay for spell points at chargen and 1 spell point is worth 1 karma.

As for metamagics. Take one initiation and shielding. If your GM likes to pull stunts like that mono wire fence one you want shielding more than you want body. Also take heavy milspec armour and mono wire won’t hurt you, you may need to up your qui some however.

If the GM won’t move on the karma point then you in trouble. There really isn’t anything to spend money on. Frankly 2 mill in assets on a Sharman with max one initiation (2nd defiantly not worth getting) is like tits on a bull you don’t have the spell points to bond much in the way of foci. You can’t afford the essence for significant cyber and there is only so much stuff you can carry.

Some things worth buying if you cant get karma
Muscle toner (to carry your armour)
Low level bone lasing and dermal sheathing (to help resist damage)
Mnemonic enhancer lowers future karma costs and turns you into an instant linguist
Data jack (link it to external coms devices)
Smart link
Probably some other cyber wear.

As a special forces teem the geasas of talisman and gestures are unlikely to cause you difficulty and with grading I think you can get all the ubove for 2 points of magic lost

Edward
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lindt
post Mar 14 2006, 05:16 PM
Post #16


Man In The Machine
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,264
Joined: 26-February 02
From: I-495 S
Member No.: 1,105



I think the problem is what your trying to do is be too specific. The only att. you have that isnt near superhuman is your strength, and thats costing you 70 build in and of itself. (which is over the 'recommended' 60 points for atts, but IMO thats not a hard and fast rule)

I think Edward has it right, initate, get some cyber and drop your atts to gain skill points.

Channelling is from T:AL I believe? Or was is T:WL?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kyoto Kid
post Mar 14 2006, 05:36 PM
Post #17


Bushido Cowgirl
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,782
Joined: 8-July 05
From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats
Member No.: 7,490



Worked up a Fallen Angel character using the MJBB powerful rules and SOTA 2064 who ended up running through the Brainscan scenario. Had a lot of "specialised" and concealed gear (using the rules for disguising an object from SOTA 2064). Also had a large number of contacts including a CIA operative (who actually came in quite handy on a number of occasions), an international Terrorist, A "Procurement Officer" (who also was rather useful), and a Lone Star Commander. Her concept actually played out rather nicely in the scheme of things.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SL James
post Mar 14 2006, 06:45 PM
Post #18


Shadowrun Setting Nerd
*******

Group: Banned
Posts: 3,632
Joined: 28-June 05
From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower.
Member No.: 7,473



Channeling in in T:AL.

BTW, E's Ghosts from Double Take (which is where those Ghost stats come from (except for vehicle support. For some reason they have no rigger.) are basically for a high-end High-Threat Response/Counterintelligence sweeper team who doesn't do a lot of travel outside of TT or undercover work. They don't have Parachuting. They don't have Electronics. The only social skill they have is Etiquette (or Leadership for the leader, natch). No Wilderness Survival. No Navigation knowledge skill. No extra languages. And So forth.

But you know what? That's fine, because at the end of the day they only need the skills to fuck up a team of shadowrunners something awful, and I run with with their full potential KP (~15, since they're metas) so... But to make them really representative of what a Ghost specfor team would look like, especially one as high-end as them in their listed skills, would probably take another 100 to 200 karma. Adepts would have Centering and Centering Foci (For A Grade 3 - easy: Masking, Centering (Physical), Centering (Ranged). They'd get, with all 6's, 6 extra dice to all shooting tests or to reduce penalties before they shoot people).

If your guy is Specfor, then I'm wondering where are this guy's massive list of knowledge skills and multiple languages?

Moreover, Firewatch takes a lot of ex-(fill in the blank unit) operators. Where's he from? Was he a Wildcat? Was in in UCAS/CAS Special Forces? If he was in SF, he should have Instruction, since that is their primary mission: to provide "Foreign Internal Defense" support. Was he in a maritime-based unit like the SEALs (Underwater Combat, Diving, Demolitions, Swimming specialization)? Hmm? What he is is more than just the only skills you seem to think he needs. His skills list should be a page long (which is why starting ex-Specfor PCs are, IMO, nearly impossible to make under the rules unless most of their skills are <3).

Trust me. I've been making SF units for over a decade. Your guy is coming up very, very short for the goodies you're being offered. Like I said, you can't make a Ghost from Double Take, but you can at least not make a one-hit wonder who gets his ass kicked if someone gets the drop on him. Even those Ghosts can be killed if played poorly (I've seen it done. It was a one-sides bitch-slapping.), and they actually have lots of killing skills. Your PC... doesn't.

And for the love of God, someone take Small Unit Tactics at no less than 6.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Altheas
post Mar 15 2006, 03:03 AM
Post #19


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 28-January 04
Member No.: 6,032



As the GM for this campaign, this is literally an insane idea that I’m experimenting with, so balance most likely is being thrown out the window. It is going to result in some glitches, since I don't have the experience, the time or the inclination to attempt to playtest or analyze it in an indepth manner. Already, this thread has pointed out there are a variety of different opinions as to how best the characters should be made, and the particular rulings that would aid the creation of these character.

I really don't find it relevant to argue about the different approaches I could take with this the issues this campaign raises. Advice for making a good character are good, particularly with the noticable gaps in this character. However I am not particularly interested in arguments as to particular rule details, for the purpose of making as 'powerful' a character as possible.

That said, now onto campaign details. The major justification for making initiations relatively expensive is that the extra nuyen represents gear that can be issued by Knight-Errant/Ares, and magical ability is somewhat hard to ‘issue’.

The money can be spent on spell points using the standard 25000¥ ratio, since spell formula can be passed along rather easily. IIRC (due lack of appropriate books at Uni) spell points purchased in this fashion may be usd to bond to foci, and I'll be applying those rules to the additional money. If the characters still need a little bit of fine-tuning, however I believe these characters should be very effective with all the options available to develop these characters. Beyond that I can't comment on other campaign details, since they are *censored*.

Finally, Soy is a common foodstuff 'nuff said.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glyph
post Mar 15 2006, 03:38 AM
Post #20


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449



You know, I may have to revise my advice a bit. A power focus is still the best item that a full mage can get, but if you buy the focus and the spellpoints, you're well over a million - and you still want to initiate at least once (Shielding is normally better, but for a 1-grade initiate it isn't effective yet, so Reflecting is definitely the way to go). So, I would get a Force: 6-8 specific spell (combat, natch) focus to go with the obvious sustaining foci (increased reflexes +3 and improved invisibility). Invoking is still a great buy for a shaman, but you might be better served buying a wide assortment of useful spells. Let the mage with an elemental pack do the heavy lifting when it comes to spirit combat; you will be better off having a moderate-force spirit use powers such as concealment or accident on behalf of the team.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wounded Ronin
post Mar 15 2006, 03:39 AM
Post #21


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,640
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383



SL James has won this thread, and Birdy is the runner up.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tisoz
post Mar 15 2006, 05:57 AM
Post #22


Free Spirit
*******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,944
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Bloomington, IN UCAS
Member No.: 1,920



QUOTE (Altheas @ Mar 14 2006, 09:03 PM)
As the GM for this campaign, <snip> I really don't find it relevant to argue about the different approaches I could take with this the issues this campaign raises. Advice for making a good character are good, particularly with the noticable gaps in this character. However I am not particularly interested in arguments as to particular rule details, for the purpose of making as 'powerful' a character as possible.

I'll not argue, but I'll suggest and give reasons.

QUOTE
The major justification for making initiations relatively expensive is that the extra nuyen represents gear that can be issued by Knight-Errant/Ares, and magical ability is somewhat hard to ‘issue’.

Agreed

QUOTE
The money can be spent on spell points using the standard 25000¥ ratio, since spell formula can be passed along rather easily. IIRC spell points purchased in this fashion may be used to bond to foci, and I'll be applying those rules to the additional money.

In the SR Companion, page 15 under Resources it is stated that GMs may allow spell points to be used as karma points to Initiate. You are already allowing the 25K/spell point. As part of a big corporation, the character likely has access to and is encouraged to join a magic group loyal to the corp, as noted by its strictures. So the character could likely be initiated with a group with such ordeals as Oath to the group. a Thesis that is in the corp vault for security (;)), and maybe a past Deed or two that benefited the group/corp.

Just by applying these basics, the PC could join the group for 3 karma, Initiate grade 1 for 9 karma (225K :nuyen: ), Initiate grade 2 for 10 karma (250K :nuyen: ), etc.. This is why many people see the Initiation costs you have proposed as being stiff. Even without a group or Ordeal Initiation grade 1 would cost only 18 karma or 450,000 :nuyen: (close to yours), grade 2 would cost 21 karma or 525,000 :nuyen: (now we see where your 500K * grade gets mean). I honestly thought you were going on 500K :nuyen: per grade as an easy way to calculate and omit groups or ordeals.

Going even further, but staying in line with your corp resources/availability, magic groups usually provide resources. To justify in the corp setting, providing the employee with access to a magic shop will provide the corp with magically active personnel with the better equipment, which increases the value of the employee and the services he can render the corp. (Besides, who is going to be able to enchant month after month without break or time to gain karma?)

Here is the quick info on Channeling which is from T:AL

Contact spirits astral form
Conjuring test vs. (2xForce) - Initiate grade
Successes x 10 minutes (is how long it lasts)
Get to use spirits powers except Engulf, Materialization (needed for immunity to normal weapons)
Increase Initiates Physical Attributes by Force
Channeling a Great Form grants Immunity to Normal Weapons and powers
At end of Channeling Resist (F)D Stun, if F>Magic Drain is Physical

[edit] had to change karma cost, used to using 5000/point, and a few typos [/edit]

This post has been edited by tisoz: Mar 15 2006, 06:06 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Edward
post Mar 15 2006, 09:43 AM
Post #23


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,073
Joined: 23-August 04
Member No.: 6,587



The balance problem is that a samurai or rigger gets full utility out of 2mill in cash. A mage dose not.

And magical power can be issued, in the form of access to a magical group controlled buy the corp. and the necessary magical reagents to force the initiation (this is the normal explanation for cash for karma for initiation). If you don’t want to allow that then its your choice. Ill just have to spend the money in other ways, ways that many people consider broken, like lots of cyber wear and declaring an item of cyber wear to be a talisman.

And I still say reflecting sucks, the chance of avoiding the effect of the spell yourself is no better than with spell defence and the chance of having enough net successes to hurt the caster is close to nil.

Edward

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Altheas
post Mar 15 2006, 12:19 PM
Post #24


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 28-January 04
Member No.: 6,032



QUOTE
(now we see where your 500K * grade gets mean)


Ah, now that explains what people are getting irate about. I was just ruling it at 500k per grade (so 500k for 1 grades, 1mil for 2 grades) and so on, not cumulative so two grades at 1.5mil. Sorry for the poor communication.

As per the rules of Character Companion, which I hadn't noticed before, they do make a lot of sense. I had picked out 1/2 a million as an arbitary number to save mucking about with groups, ordeals and the like. Particularly when half of the point of an ordeal (in my mind at least) is that it is something significant in-game, using an arbitary 'I did a deed for my group' statement seems to defeat the point.

Sorry to seem a bit tetchy tisoz, however I get a bit frustrated at being accused of being 'out to screw the mages' and the like. Not the best way to get someone in a good mood, however for the opportunity to make that clarification is much appreciated.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Edward
post Mar 15 2006, 03:37 PM
Post #25


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,073
Joined: 23-August 04
Member No.: 6,587



if you do allow initiation considering groups and ordeals then I would only allow ordeals that can only be done once, and have no chance of failure. Oath and thesis come to mind, there could be more. Geasa would also be an acceptable one because the geasa is required in game.

Ordeal would be stupid for reasons you stated and if they want meditation make them do the rolls.

Or just stick to your half million per grade. Its not so bad if not cumulative.

Edward
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th April 2024 - 09:22 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.