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> Need Some Help With My Marine, Definitely Need Fine-Tuning
Leviathan
post Mar 20 2006, 04:06 AM
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**EDITED**
Ok, this is Marine Mark II, altered after some of the suggestions from below.


Ok, this is the third character I'm putting together for the Spec-Ops game.
This guy is intended to be mostly the "Big Man with Guns" character, but rather more flexible etc.

Special rules: 130 build points, :nuyen: 2million bonus, Availability restrictions are off, Starting skills restrictions off.

(Note: Please do not use this thread as a forum for discussion of whether those special rules accurately represent a spec-ops team, or why aren't we using rule X or etc. This is an experriment by my GM, no changes will be made).


Edges/Flaws
QUOTE

Bonus Attribute Point (Body)
Quick Healer
Sensitive Neural Structure
Choker (Control Tests)


Attributes
QUOTE

Body: 8[12]
Quickness: 6(10)
Strength: 6(9)
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 5
Willpower: 6


Skills (I think there needs some alterations here)
Active
QUOTE

Etiquette: 3
Throwing Weapons/Grenades: 2/4
Demolitions: 5
Electronics: 5
Biotech/First-Aid: 3/5
Pistols: 6
Wilderness Survival: 6
Athletics: 6
Stealth: 6
Martial Arts (Penjak Silat): 6
Clubs/Stun Baton: 4/6
Launch Weapons/Grenade Launchers: 4/6
Assault Rifles: 10


Knowledge & Language
QUOTE

Music: 5
Military Theory: 5
Mythos (Folklore): 5
Paranormal Animals: 5
Cybertechnology: 5

English: 4
Japanese: 3


Cyberware
QUOTE

Lvl 1 Boosted Reflexes
Kevlar Bone Lace
Rating 1 Dermal Sheath
Smartlink II + Rangefinder
Datajack
Transducer
+ Subdermal Speakers
Math SPU
Ears, Cyber Replacement
+ Ear Dampner†
+ Hearing Amp†
+ High Frequency
+ Low Frequency
+ Recorder
Eyeware
+ Flare Comp
+ Image Link
+ Eyelights
Chem Analyser
Gas Spectrometer
+ Rating 6 Built-in Program
Nanite Hive (Nano-Symbiotes)
Nanite Facilitator
Multislot Chipjack (2)

Essense: 2.63


Bioware
QUOTE

Rank 2 Synaptic Accelerator
Trauma Dampner
Muscle Toner 4
Muscle Augmentation 3
Enhanced Articulation
Damage Compensator 4

Bio-Index: 5.6



So, I'm left with just over :nuyen: 600k for equipment, which I havn't decided on yet.

Equipmentwise, the only things I'm certain on is: Dikoted, Ruthenium-coated Heavy Milspec Armor with all the trimmings, including vision enhancements, communications, thermal dampning and non-conductive.

So What else do you guys think I need/should be changed?
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Edward
post Mar 20 2006, 08:57 AM
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I think your edged weapons is higher than it should be, unless youíre a specialist. Also the parachuting skill may be a good idea as would SMUT (small unit tactics)

Finally I would expect a special forces soldier to have a proper martial art, not brawling,

So change those skills to
Edged 6
SMUT battle tack systems 3(5)
Martial art 8
And you still have some build points over for manurers.

You donít really need all the ear and eye and com wear implanted, you can put it in your milspeck helmet. (I assume your going to get milspec helmets)

A tactical computer with battel tack modification is defiantly a good buy

I would put a ruthenium coating on your milspeck armour, including max sensors, (if you canít do this get photovoltaic colour change armour with multiple programmed camouflage patterns).

Other than that all you need is weapons and explosives. I would ask your GM if you can requisition ammunition and explosives at the beginning of each mision based on what you think you will need.

Edward
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Crusher Bob
post Mar 20 2006, 10:56 AM
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You shold probably just drop the GPS, comm gear, and math SPU. You have a datajack. Get the exaqct same gear in a little box, plug it into your datajack, save a bunch of essence + money. Drop dermal sheath to level 1, and buy up some sense ware (olfactory booster + gas spectrometer) (or just buy shoulder drones with same capability and plug in). You'll need advance warning to get some use out of your internal air tank. If possible, try to get your essence back up to 3. AS you'll be almost impossible to heal, you'll want to try to squeeze in symbiotes for the improved healing times. You also forgot to get enhanced articulation +1 die for almost everything. You'll also want a chipjack, so that you can use linguasofts and knowsofts.

You may want to trade out heavy weapons for launch weapons. As almost all of the 'heavy weapons' you can carry around with you (LAW, SMAW, grenade launcher, SAM, missile launcher, light mortar) use launch weapons. The only things that use the heavy weapons skill that you are likely to carry around are the MGs, and an alpha can do just as good a job in almost all circumstances. Most 'really big buns' use gunnery and not heavy weapons.

Also consider throwing (grenades) of 1/3 for 2 skill points. Carrying smoke and flash-bang grenades to go with the explosive grenages loaded into your alpha give some handy flexibility.

Consider switching out computer for electronics B/R and some weapon B/R skills. when you are on the ass end of nowhere and something breaks down, you have to know how to fix it.

You'll probably want some first aid skill maybe biotech (firstaid) 2/4

Also, you have 10 in blades and 8 in martial arts, better to pick one and specialize, so you can save the points for other skills you might need.
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Birdy
post Mar 20 2006, 08:06 PM
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I disagree with those who say "drop the cybereye/ear". After all:

+ You can't loose your eye
+ It's a cyberpunk game

And to loosely quote "Mad Mike":

"There are places you can't go wearing a K-Pot with "Born to kill" scrawled on the side."


I'd actually add a Opticam to the eyes(Each SpecOps Soldier with Cyber-Eyes should IMHO have one, each SpecOps including the Mage should have Cyber Eyes) That way you can relay information back to the command center without having to worry with external gear. Also add a BattleTech Cyberlink. Again, a must IMHO

I'd drop the Lv1 boosted (3W6 is still fast for a soldier) and possibly the air tank. Most poisons will kill you anyway so for ChemProtection you either need Air+Blood Filters or an external ChemSuit.

I'd add some HeadMem (for those times where you can't broadcast) and a 2-slot Chipjack. You already have the display and the GPS so add in the maps and tac briefings. Having lugged around the Map IRL I'd have killed a few Ruskis for such gear in case of war. ;)

Any reason you use OpticVismag over Electronic one? Optic is basically a Mage only thing.

You don't need a full SmartLink since the ImageLink can act as a component.

If you keep the GPS add an Orientation system. Either go all the way or don't go at all.



Skills:

Unless you are the groups Hacker, I'd take the suggestion some people made and drop computer for electornics B/R.

Drop a point or three from the high-level skills and take Stealth/Sneaking or Stealth/Hiding

Specialise Etiquette

Drop the Pistol skill, use the skill substitution roles

Specialise to your preferred Rifle and Edged Weapon




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mmu1
post Mar 20 2006, 11:40 PM
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Let's see.

First of all, Stealth is pretty much a must, as Birdy points out. (along with a ruthenium poncho or coated armor)

As far as melee skills go, I think it's a mistake to put a lot of points into both Unarmed and Edged. Unless you really care about style, Unarmed is what you fall back on when you don't have a weapon or the skill to use one, and (from a purely utilitarian point of view) Edged Weapons suck when compared to weapons of similar concealability and reach. Shock Gloves, Stun Batons (which both have the added benefit of hurting things with Immunity to Normal Weapons, since they use electricity), or reach 2 weapons are where it's at. Everything else is about looking good, rather than hitting hard. (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but...)

Dermal Sheathing 2 is a massive waste of money and Essence - the extra one point of Body you get over DS1 is not worth .7 Essence, IMO.

And let me throw in another vote for getting rid of some of the cyber you could get as external 'ware. Yeah, if it's internal, you'll never lose it, but for every time that might happen, there are probably going to be many situations where you'll be kicking yourself for not being able to lend a radio to a teammate, have someone else hold the GPS and read out instructions while you concentrate on something else, or plug an external transducer into someone who can't communicate normally because of illness or injury.
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SL James
post Mar 20 2006, 11:45 PM
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Heh. What command center?
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Wounded Ronin
post Mar 21 2006, 01:04 AM
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Well, if he's supposed to be a Marine per se, my only suggestion is that you play through and beat Damage Incorporated 3 times so that you learn how to correctly portray a cartoonish Vietnam-era marine who fires from the hip and uses inappropriately outdated slogans.

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=...warticle&id=121
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Ghostly Enigma
post Mar 21 2006, 04:32 AM
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with some of the cyber your putting in your guy why not get two cyber lower arms put the stuff like GPS, Ortation system, memory, radio's, est in them save on Ess. ;). If done right you would be amazed at how much you can but in to just two cyber lower arms tho if you do put alot of stuff in em you well need a router and DNI addapt some of the stuff but thats not to big a deal as doing that dont add ess.

This post has been edited by Ghostly Enigma: Mar 21 2006, 04:45 AM
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Ghostly Enigma
post Mar 21 2006, 04:41 AM
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bah >_<

This post has been edited by Ghostly Enigma: Mar 21 2006, 04:43 AM
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Leviathan
post Mar 21 2006, 05:02 AM
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Gone back and edited original post.

Marine Mark II is now up
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Crusher Bob
post Mar 21 2006, 11:15 AM
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If you are going to go with a nanite hive, see if you can cram that, a cyberarm gyromount, and your smartlink into an obvious cyberarm. The extra three points of recoil comp should let you fire a ten round burst dead on

2 (alpha interal recoil comp) + 1 (strength) + 4 (gas vent) + 3 (cyberarm gyromount) gives you 10 points of recoil comp.
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Birdy
post Mar 21 2006, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (SL James)
Heh. What command center?

I read "Marine" as "Someone who served with Uncle Sams Misguided Children" or a similar unit. And military units tend to have a command center.

After all you need a place to store the

+ Company Overseer
+ Civilian Consultant
+ Child Survivor
+ Inexperienced Leutenant

and let them watch the carnage while the Sarge and the Troopers are getting slaughtered<<<fullfil the mission
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Birdy
post Mar 21 2006, 12:07 PM
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Suggestion:

Drop the Nannie-Hive and add a CrashCart or Guardian MedSystem. Should be more effective for a soldier.
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Leviathan
post Mar 22 2006, 06:51 AM
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QUOTE (Birdy)
Suggestion:

Drop the Nannie-Hive and add a CrashCart or Guardian MedSystem. Should be more effective for a soldier.

I thought about that, but my GM advised me that the nanosymbiotes will be better off, especially in the long run, just make sure I carry a medkit with me.
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Ankle Biter
post Mar 22 2006, 03:34 PM
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I'm fairly sure trauma dampers don't work with damage compensators active.

One neat trick is platelet factory bioware stacked with the chemical gland bioware slotted for the pills you need to take.

Also your flaws are afaik decker only, they are not really appropirate as a flaw for a character who will never make a control test. That depends on your gm though.

Go for the cranial nuke/mysterious cyberware flaws instead, it's not like you are going to go independant, and they get you a lorra lorra points. Also leads to great fun when the guy holding your button tells you to slot the team up "It's not my fault, the GM made me do it." :D
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LinaInverse
post Mar 22 2006, 04:17 PM
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Any RL Marines feel free to correct me, but isn't there a credo among the Marines that "every man is a rifleman"? Shouldn't this guy have Rifles 6+? OK yeah, he can default from Assault Rifles, but I would expect that a Marine would be rifle-specific trained.

Besides, if this is a "starting avail off" campaign, then he can make good use of some powerful weapons like the 2100 or the infamous Barrett.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Mar 22 2006, 04:23 PM
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The rifle that the riflemen (both MOS 0311 and "every man") of the real USMC are trained with is the M16A2/A3/A4. In SR3, that uses the Assault Rifles skill. Which is fucked up, but there you have it.
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Stompy
post Mar 22 2006, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (Ankle Biter @ Mar 22 2006, 10:34 AM)
I'm fairly sure trauma dampers don't work with damage compensators active.


Not just fairly sure, you are totally right, those two don't work together.

So he should either drop the damage compensators, or drop the trauma damper and get an implanted biomonitor, to keep track of his injuries.

Leviathan, can you tell us, what rank and function this character should fullfill? Is he just a "grunt" (even a spec-ops grunt), or does he have a command? Is he Squad leader, Sergeant or a commanding officer?

In this case, he would need quite a lot of active skills like leadership, small unit tactics, large scale strategies, etc.
He would also greatly profit from a battletac cyberlink, maybe even a tactical computer.
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SL James
post Mar 22 2006, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (Birdy)
QUOTE (SL James @ Mar 20 2006, 11:45 PM)
Heh. What command center?

I read "Marine" as "Someone who served with Uncle Sams Misguided Children" or a similar unit. And military units tend to have a command center.

After all you need a place to store the

+ Company Overseer
+ Civilian Consultant
+ Child Survivor
+ Inexperienced Leutenant

and let them watch the carnage while the Sarge and the Troopers are getting slaughtered<<<fullfil the mission

Of course. I forgot this was a "movie specops" game where no one practices EMCON, the bad guys never listen in on the good guys, and even if they did the good guys' encryption couldn't be broken by the entirety of NSA in less than 1,000 years.
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Birdy
post Mar 22 2006, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (Birdy @ Mar 21 2006, 06:05 AM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Mar 20 2006, 11:45 PM)
Heh. What command center?

I read "Marine" as "Someone who served with Uncle Sams Misguided Children" or a similar unit. And military units tend to have a command center.

After all you need a place to store the

+ Company Overseer
+ Civilian Consultant
+ Child Survivor
+ Inexperienced Leutenant

and let them watch the carnage while the Sarge and the Troopers are getting slaughtered<<<fullfil the mission

Of course. I forgot this was a "movie specops" game where no one practices EMCON, the bad guys never listen in on the good guys, and even if they did the good guys' encryption couldn't be broken by the entirety of NSA in less than 1,000 years.

Exactly! Real life is boring and bears no resemblance to the official SR universe.

Besides, if THAT enemy starts using electronics, you are in even more trouble than before. In that case my suggestion would be:

Skills:

+ Die screaming while firing wildly 12
+ Explain weapons to the female civilian consultant 10
+ Nuke the place from orbit 10

Preferred weapons:

+ Amok-running athmosphere processors
+ Nuklear Demolition Munition (aka Backpack Nuke)


So, would somebody please wake Hicks :D
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Findar
post Mar 22 2006, 07:54 PM
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I would replace Assault Rifles with Rifles and go with a custom sniper rifle as my main weapon. Can't beat the damage of a sniper rifle. SA rate of fire and at least 14S damage. That will damage a force 7 spirit I think. I'd also swap the heavy weapons and launch weapons. Go with launch 6 and specialize the heavy weapons in assault cannon. I'm not sure about pistols either. Might be just fine to default on that skill.
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Wounded Ronin
post Mar 22 2006, 11:27 PM
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QUOTE (Birdy)
QUOTE (SL James @ Mar 22 2006, 05:53 PM)
QUOTE (Birdy @ Mar 21 2006, 06:05 AM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Mar 20 2006, 11:45 PM)
Heh. What command center?

I read "Marine" as "Someone who served with Uncle Sams Misguided Children" or a similar unit. And military units tend to have a command center.

After all you need a place to store the

+ Company Overseer
+ Civilian Consultant
+ Child Survivor
+ Inexperienced Leutenant

and let them watch the carnage while the Sarge and the Troopers are getting slaughtered<<<fullfil the mission

Of course. I forgot this was a "movie specops" game where no one practices EMCON, the bad guys never listen in on the good guys, and even if they did the good guys' encryption couldn't be broken by the entirety of NSA in less than 1,000 years.

Exactly! Real life is boring and bears no resemblance to the official SR universe.

Besides, if THAT enemy starts using electronics, you are in even more trouble than before. In that case my suggestion would be:

Skills:

+ Die screaming while firing wildly 12
+ Explain weapons to the female civilian consultant 10
+ Nuke the place from orbit 10

Preferred weapons:

+ Amok-running athmosphere processors
+ Nuklear Demolition Munition (aka Backpack Nuke)


So, would somebody please wake Hicks :D

See, Birdy has the right idea. The absurd breakdown of skills requiring SMG, shotgun, rifle, etc to all be seperately purchased just makes it a lot more fun to have a spastic, doomed, pulse-rifle wielding marine.

Just spend your million nuyen on a pulse rifle.
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Leviathan
post Mar 23 2006, 05:18 AM
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QUOTE (Stompy)
Not just fairly sure, you are totally right, those two don't work together.

So he should either drop the damage compensators, or drop the trauma damper and get an implanted biomonitor, to keep track of his injuries.

Leviathan, can you tell us, what rank and function this character should fullfill? Is he just a "grunt" (even a spec-ops grunt), or does he have a command? Is he Squad leader, Sergeant or a commanding officer?

In this case, he would need quite a lot of active skills like leadership, small unit tactics, large scale strategies, etc.
He would also greatly profit from a battletac cyberlink, maybe even a tactical computer.

Well, the Dampner and Compensator *do* work together, just not very well. The dampner kicks in when the compensator is overloaded, so I was considering dumping one anyway.

I have no idea if he'll have a rank or anything, I dont think I'll be finding that out until the game starts.
His main function is grunt, we have a sniper, I believe we have a mage, so we need a couple of gun-bunnies.

Also, I do not have enough cash for a battletac computer.
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Ankle Biter
post Mar 23 2006, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (Leviathan)
QUOTE (Stompy @ Mar 22 2006, 12:48 PM)
Not just fairly sure, you are totally right, those two don't work together.

So he should either drop the damage compensators, or drop the trauma damper and get an implanted biomonitor, to keep track of his injuries.

Leviathan, can you tell us, what rank and function this character should fullfill? Is he just a "grunt" (even a spec-ops grunt), or does he have a command? Is he Squad leader, Sergeant or a commanding officer?

In this case, he would need quite a lot of active skills like leadership, small unit tactics, large scale strategies, etc.
He would also greatly profit from a battletac cyberlink, maybe even a tactical computer.

Well, the Dampner and Compensator *do* work together, just not very well. The dampner kicks in when the compensator is overloaded, so I was considering dumping one anyway.

I have no idea if he'll have a rank or anything, I dont think I'll be finding that out until the game starts.
His main function is grunt, we have a sniper, I believe we have a mage, so we need a couple of gun-bunnies.

Also, I do not have enough cash for a battletac computer.

I would go without the damage comp, nothing says bonus to next intimidation roll like being still standing after somebody shoots you with an assault cannon. :D (unfortunately the next shot used my hand of god)

Trauma damper also kills the last box of stun on those nasty gamma scopolamine grenades. Any anti chemical warefare biomods are worth it.

Invest in a chem suit, and gas grenades... gamma scopolamine ruins tanks days, as all of their body enhancement mods don't work on it. Seriously, the GM rarely/never remembers to give your opponents gas masks/respirators (just make sure you do not mention you intend to use gas on the run, and ask the GM what they are wearing before you ambush them. "I don't recall you mentioning tha they had gas masks on." :D

Two-shotting bunkers with a gam scop, +1 other stun gas grenade is hee-larious.
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Leviathan
post Mar 23 2006, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (Ankle Biter)
Seriously, the GM rarely/never remembers to give your opponents gas masks/respirators (just make sure you do not mention you intend to use gas on the run, and ask the GM what they are wearing before you ambush them. "I don't recall you mentioning tha they had gas masks on." :D

Actually, last session that we ran every guard on duty had a fully sealed chem-suit :( .
It made the 2 hours my stealth adept spent planting literally five kinds of biochemical agent in every air intake and vent of the ruthenium mining complex we were attacking largely useless. :(
We still had approx 30 guards with assault-rifles to contend with, *in addition* to the guards on the towers..
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