 SR4 in play experience, very pleased Gm and players |
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 Mar 21 2006, 09:13 PM
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#26
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773  |
Minimum damage is 1, though, even if the die roll suggests a negative number. So the mouse would still be toast. |
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Mar 21 2006, 09:14 PM
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#27
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
oops. forgot about that.
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Mar 21 2006, 09:33 PM
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#28
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I'll have to differ on that one. After playing both systems, I have to say that Savage Worlds doesn't lack for specific or creative actions. Shadowrun doesn't either, but neither system falls into the d20: "Uh, I try and hit him again" trap. Not to mention that Savage Worlds isn't a single-die game. ;)
I haven't delved into nWoD nearly as deeply as some others, but it's got a lot of other advantages: faster and easier chargen, with fewer abusive loopholes, for one. I'm not sure which resolves faster, but I've played the nWoD precursors, which ran about the same-- if not slightly in favor of the White Wolf games, because they had fewer variables to keep track of. The main resolution system is what really drives me nuts about both systems, though. The entire concept of variable dice vs fixed TN, where modifiers add/remove dice, has a nasty little flaw at the bottom end. Namely, that after a certain point, your skill doesn't matter anymore-- it's all just dumb luck. And since it's just up to luck, you can pile on the modifiers as high as you like, and your odds remain exactly the same. I like the nWoD dumb luck system somewhat more than the SR4 one, for two reasons. The first is that in SR4, under some circumstances, you aren't even allowed to try. I've always believed in giving my players a chance-- the odds might be high, but there's always that one chance that they can pull it off. Even if the TN was 24, there was a chance, and a higher skill would help somewhat. The second thing I dislike about SR4 is the Edge mechanic, where the lucky characters have a better chance of pulling off the amazing shots than the skilled ones. If you've got an Edge of 8, you can pile on the modifiers-- default, go full-auto or call a shot to bypass a Banshee's armor, blindfold yourself, stand on your head, and yodel; you still get 8 dice to try it with. Neither system handles this issue an a way that I like, and I can't see any way of fixing it without a major overhaul to the core mechanic. However, I think the nWoD system is slightly more fair than SR4's, for the reasons I described. When you combine that with the fact that White Wolf simply outproduces FanPro, nWoD starts looking better and better, since it has a lot more support. Fanpro is a smaller operation; they cannot put out new supplements as fast as White Wolf can. As a result, nWoD ends up looking a lot more attractive than SR4. |
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Mar 21 2006, 09:49 PM
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#29
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
So what's the address of the forums for Savage Worlds? I'd like to go there and get into a bunch of arguments because I prefer SR4.
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Mar 21 2006, 09:51 PM
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#30
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
There's always the quantity over quality argument in that case. But I don't play nWoD so I can't comment. |
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 Mar 21 2006, 09:55 PM
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#31
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
It'll help if you can work on being completely clueless. For example an ability to read without comprehending seems critical. Er, make that read, have someone point out your misunderstanding, read it again, repeat several times, and still come away with nothing. I guess you could call it Teflon Brain. |
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Mar 21 2006, 09:56 PM
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#32
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
so, how about those non-insulting posts, that aren't designed for the sole purpose of instigating a flamewar, huh? boy, they're grrrrreat.
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Mar 21 2006, 10:02 PM
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#33
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Ouch! You better call A-1 Glass to patch up that hole you just made in your front picture window. ;) |
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Mar 21 2006, 10:07 PM
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#34
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that would be accurate, except that i don't post for the sole purpose of pissing people off--though i'll freely admit that it's a nice bonus. you, on the other hand, rarely make even a token attempt at staying on-topic.
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Mar 21 2006, 10:09 PM
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#35
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
So you are playing SR4 now? P.S. Do I really have to go back and post a link to you going off-topic about you not liking that I put a couple of replies to different posts back to back? Hypocrite. |
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Mar 21 2006, 10:13 PM
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#36
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
no, but i've dabbled in Savage Worlds and D&D, both of which have entered the discussion. and again, that would be accurate, except i don't post for the sole purpose of pissing people off.
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Mar 21 2006, 10:30 PM
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#37
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Stop trolling for arguments. |
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Mar 21 2006, 10:46 PM
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#38
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Only in the same way SR4 isn't an attribute+skill game. Savage Worlds features a variable target number (the fact that it is substracted from the roll is purely calculatory), too, so, even given simplicity, it's worse than GURPS concerning randomness. Though, if going for nearly utmost simplicity, without wanting to worry about realism, Savage Worlds seems a fun game to play - but then, I prefer Dogs in the Vineyard. ;) |
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Mar 21 2006, 10:58 PM
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#39
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I'm not familiar with that term. |
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Mar 21 2006, 11:07 PM
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#40
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
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Mar 21 2006, 11:15 PM
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#41
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, so you play d&d but not SR4? color me confused... btw, i hope to run a couple of games of SR4 soon... |
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Mar 21 2006, 11:18 PM
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#42
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
D&D adequately fills my desire to play pulp action games. SR3 does an okay job of filling my desire to play detailed, realistic games. SR4 fills neither, for me.
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Mar 21 2006, 11:21 PM
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#43
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well that covers it then...
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Mar 21 2006, 11:48 PM
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#44
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Every runner had one hit (yep, they rolled bad and I rolled good). But my main point was that it was hard for me to judge in advance how deadly a manaball will be - and i am an experienced SR-GM. And i guess it's unlikely for a mundane to resist a spell cast by a hafway competent magician. |
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Mar 22 2006, 01:17 AM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 135 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,313 |
It's my experience that the C&R system bogs down precisely then, which iswhen any combat crawls to a halt. I've had single sessions, even one combat scene, of C&R last literally all day, or at least until the sun started to go down and one or more players had to go home for dinner. The expansion, Cowboys and Indians, is not better. C&I allows for a new weapon, namely bows, which addresses the issue of difference between the classes (or lack thereof) that some critics had brought up. However, it does not do anything to make resolution more deterministic and less a matter of personal interpretation and house rules. |
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Mar 22 2006, 06:07 AM
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#46
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
WE've been having pretty fast combats. Ran agame last night that had 5 runners in combat, and two more teams of 5, including mages, snipers, and moving vehicles. Took about 15 minutes.
Of course, that's mostly because people were dropping left and right. Tagged one unarmored runner with a sniper (extracting target from Paris Opera House) and dropped her in one shot. Both were using edge. Then abunch of gun men opened fire on the team. People were coming from different areas , a second team came in that tried to take out both. It was good times. I really like how full auto fire can seriously mess up someone's day (as it well should). We've had the smae problem with manaball though. All the characters in my current camapgin are very experienced (400-700 karma). The ones that are mundane (aka no spell defense) against even comparitively low grade initiates (grade 4 for example) get pounded on manabased spells. When the team is on the ball and there's enemy magicians around, they have at least one of the groups 3 mages (pretty magic heavy game) working counterspelling for the mundanes. |
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Mar 22 2006, 06:43 AM
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#47
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Target Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: 29-January 06 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 8,210 |
Savage Worlds sounds like one of those games that some of us gamers call Beer and Chips games, take a few mins and roll up a char and drink lots of beer to enhance the hack and slash fest.
When your to drunk to roll dice anymore you throw the chars in the trash and call it a night. I would say more but I am still reeling from blowing coke out my nose when I read Azralons post about going to the Savage Worlds forms to talk about a game he doenst play. Curse you Azralon! |
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Mar 22 2006, 08:06 AM
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#48
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
That's how it will work out, but which player enjoys to use up his mage for counterspelling only? |
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Mar 22 2006, 08:23 AM
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#49
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Did someone just accuse nWoD of having less abusive loopholes than Shadowrun? Wow, you really haven't delved into it deeply. Faster Chargen I will grant you, if only because a starting character has no options. You have 3 piles of attributes and you can assign them to the 3 slots in any order, and that's it. There's some ways for you to be "better" than other characters (for example: don't buy the 5th point that costs double, just take your one free bonus attribute point in something you bought up to 4), but not by much because chargen is extremely proscribed. Bonus points are gone, Flaws no longer give you chargen bonuses, and everyone is required by law to have the same mental limitations. Essentially, nWoD is on the old Shadowrun Priority system except that it already preselects that everyone is going to have an A in Race, a B in Attributes, and a C in Skills. Everyone. There's no option available to set your priorities in any other way. So that gives you faster chargen. At the cost of characters not actually being unique at all. --- But fewer abusive loopholes I will not grant. Anyone who says that nWoD is less subject to abuse than SR4 is either ignorant or deceitful. -Frank |
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Mar 22 2006, 09:03 AM
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#50
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Apparently the one that does it every time. He seems to get a kick out of blocking spells and snubbing his nose at other mages. |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 13th December 2025 - 11:47 AM |
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