 SR4 in play experience, very pleased Gm and players |
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 Apr 10 2006, 08:50 PM
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#351
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Great, I'm a Dragon...  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698  |
Man, I'm so glad that none of the people I game with thinks in the way you do.
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Apr 10 2006, 08:58 PM
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#352
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
In SR3, that stunt only needed a trauma dampener. ;)
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Apr 10 2006, 08:59 PM
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#353
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Outstanding. |
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Apr 10 2006, 09:28 PM
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#354
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
You are permanently lowering your attribute, not spending points. It can be done even if you've already spent all your edge for the day. If your group is being hit by multiple THOR shots, I think you'll have bigger problems then whether or not they've spent their edge points for the day. If you're going to those lengths to kill them, just drop 30 THOR shots on them and it doesn't matter what their starting edge was or if it has to be spent or unspent edge you burn. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:38 AM
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#355
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Not if you were using the overdamage rules.
But then, you also run across the insta-success bit for burning Edge. So, not only can they withstand multiple THOR shots, they can get a critical success on their dodge roll to get into the nuclear shelter. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:44 AM
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#356
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Okay, so you've stilled dropped a THOR on them. Like I said, there are probably other problems in the game at that point.
If they want to permanently lower their attribute to buy some successes I say go for it. Edge is a powerful ability, and will probably never be burned lightly. |
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Apr 11 2006, 07:38 AM
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#357
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Cain - so, let me get this straight. You are simultaneously complaining that powerful NPCs are too easy to take down, and that it is too hard to challenge PCs? They should be just as vulnerable as that NPC is!
And while I dislike how low the hard caps are, and that you can reach them at char-gen, I do like the idea of having things max out eventually. Ultra-NPCs who are always "better" than the PCs are, to me, an inelegant and over-simplified way to challenge a group. With hard caps, such villains have to act more realistically. Instead of standing there no-selling everything like a Marvel super-villain, they have to do things like have bodyguards and magical support, pick the environment for the fight, use tactics, have escape routes, and so on. In other words, just like the PCs, they are still only human, and they need to stay sharp or they are toast! As far as the villain being killed "too early", that is less likely with Edge. It also protects PCs from those "gunned down by a lowly ganger" moments. Burning Edge is a decent way to give a PC or an NPC another chance. And it is not "walking away from it". It is surviving to run another day, but not without consequences (being hospitalized, etc.). |
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Apr 11 2006, 10:14 AM
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#358
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Even then. The maximum damage level you got from falling was D, after that, only power level increased. At that point, there would be the possibility of overdamage - if falling damage would have net successes that could convert into extra damage. Only, it didn't, so you were perfectly safe jumping from an airplane with nothing more than your trauma dampener. If you did so without, you only risked to die if not getting medical attention. |
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Apr 11 2006, 10:40 AM
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#359
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
This is a damn good point. I've found myself with an NPC who at some point will have to turn on the players (although they are aware of the imminent treachery). Good as this NPC is, he has absolutely no chance of simply killing them all. At first that really bothered me (well- not that I want to kill them but I want this guy to be a threat). But actually that's what'll hopefully make this story line and that character interesting. He's going to have to be more cunning. |
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Apr 11 2006, 04:58 PM
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#360
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
You mean the non-core optional rules supplied to mitigate the obvious lack of realism? Man. Too bad that trick can never work again on any new editions. I guess SR4 just won't get any better as new expansion books come out. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:13 PM
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#361
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
You have a blank 126th page in your SR3 book? The original question was about falling from orbit, though, which did not have any rules in the core book. The whole section where the rules for falling appear in the SR3Companion (Using Athletics) is pretty fucked up. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:19 PM
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#362
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Nope, on that page it lists some optional rules that aren't part of the standard game. Almost as if the developers knew that the core rules wouldn't satisfy everyone. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:24 PM
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#363
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Rather central rules in the core book = core rules, right? _Optional_ core rules, but core rules nevertheless.
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Apr 11 2006, 05:28 PM
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#364
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Check Rotbart's reply. Core or not, overdamage doesn't apply to falling because you max at a Deadly.
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Apr 11 2006, 05:32 PM
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#365
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Hence why I said "The whole section where the rules for falling appear in the SR3Companion (Using Athletics) is pretty fucked up."
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Apr 11 2006, 05:36 PM
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#366
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Sorry, I thought the discussion was still aimed at the relevance of the overdamage rules, not the definition of "core."
Some people take "core" to mean "in the main book(s)." Others take it to mean "non-optional in the main book(s)." I fall into the latter category, just because I like that it makes rules easier to classify. If I tell my players we're using only core rules, they know to ignore anything optional or introduced in supplements. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:41 PM
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#367
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Sure, I'll grant you the semantics on "core" if you grant me the same on "standard." Terminology tangles aside, my meaning was that overdamage rules -- which I and my group were happy to use -- were not a standard part of the basic SR3 package. Overdamage is fundamentally integrated into SR4's basics, and SR4 also has optional rules available in its one and only sourcebook released as of this writing. My sarcasm-free point being: SR4 will improve as more material is released. I dunno about anyone else, but I look forward to the martial arts rules that will eventually come out in a future expansion. Specific moves and styles are way cooler than just the "attack, evade, soak" basics we have now. But for the time being, they'll do. |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:41 PM
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#368
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I didn't get that impression because Azralon's point seemed to be that such rules could be added on to SR4 like they were added on to SR3 -- only they weren't added to SR3, they were always there. If that wasn't the case, then my bad.
Most likely. Although, considering what the Cannon Companion did to martial arts in SR3, I wouldn't keep my expectations too high for future melee rules. :) |
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Apr 11 2006, 05:52 PM
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#369
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I'll take the blame for the lack of clarity since I was making two points in the same post, and using sarcasm to muddy up both of them in the first place. Point #1: Many game systems offer optional and/or advanced rules to provide playtested alternatives to people who aren't satisfied with just the standard ruleset. Overdamage is an example in SR3 (which was mentioned in another post). SR4 has its own optional rules offered for the same reason. Point #2: Additional game rules will be released to expand upon and clarify the existing rules, likely making SR4 a better game than it stands with the one currently published book. |
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