 What Weapons To Use?, Arg, Confused! |
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 Mar 22 2006, 02:09 PM
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#26
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587  |
Ouch, yes I forgot that, no barrel mounts.
Revised listing Alfa 11S no recoil 11S no recoil HVAR 12D no recoil 12D recoil 6 HVAR with tracers 10D -2 TN 10D recoil 4 HVAR + cyber gyro mount 12D no recoil 12D recoil 3 HVAR +cyber gyro and tracers 10D -2 TN 10D recoil 1 HVAR full gyro mount harness 12D no recoil 12D no recoil but if you were wiling to carry a full gyro mount harness why not just use a LMG (or evon MMG) firing 3 round bursts for a lot les money better penetration of hard armor and being faster on the draw. Edward |
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Mar 22 2006, 02:36 PM
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#27
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The only problem with LMGs and MMGs without a gyromount is that you need STR 8 or BOD 8 to fire them, and you have to cut all bursts so that you never take recoil, or they'll magically force you to lie down. That isn't a real problem as long as your GM allows you to fire less than 10 rounds with a Full Auto Fire action. In any case, you can do 2 bursts of 12D with a MMG with no recoil easily. If you've got a Cyberarm Gyromount and a STR of 8, you can use FA with a LMG with no recoil.
If you don't mind having a foregrip or weights instead of a GL, have a STR of 8, and can reliably get 4 successes on a Knockdown test vs. TN 4, then you can also fire a MMG on FA. Having to resist 3L or 4L Stun shouldn't be a problem for the average Heavy Weapons character. None of which is any help if your main firearms skill is ARs, of course. BTW, note that tracers provide no benefit if you're using a smartlink, which you probably are. |
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Mar 22 2006, 04:15 PM
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#28
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not really—you compare with Vehicle Armor before staging due to burst/FA/ammo type. With AV ammo you can down something of Armor 15 or less, which is very respectable, but with EX-EX you're looking at Armor 3 or below to avoid making pretty sparks.
IMO, you want the SPAS-22. High Power, built-in recoil comp, high Concealability with the stock nondeployed, built-in SL2… if you have Polearms, slap a bayonet on there and go to town. Also, check if your GM has bothered to change the rules for shotgun shot. If not, a shotgun with shot rounds firing at the widest choke that will still hit the target will put down anything in a 9-meter cone not wearing hardened armor (except possibly Trolls)—1S with an expected ten successes behind it is pretty nasty. Even worse when combined with Adept powers. As for accessories, my advice is to take both a Suppressor and a Gas Vent IV, swapping as mission parameters call for. If you're feeling really adventurous, you could even carry both and swap mid-run if your cover gets blown and you need a breather (or if things start blowing up elsewhere and you see a chance to get back to being sneaky). If you have internal magnification, my advice is to take a combined Guncam/Flashlight (of whatever variety desired)/Ultrasound Sight for your top-mount. ~J |
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Mar 22 2006, 05:21 PM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 12-February 06 Member No.: 8,253 |
From this discussion i assume, that you are playing mercenaries or spec ops. Which means, you will probably encounter a lot of different situations.
To be effective in various circumstances, you need at least two different main weapons (with their own skills). I see two options there. The first, most obvious and probably most versatile would be the Ares Alpha + Grenade Launcher combination with assault rifles and launch weapons as skills. Works for almost every situation, and you get the option to use missile launchers, for anti-tank and surface-to-air-work. When you want to be stealthy, take a second Ares Alpha, remove the grenade launcher, add a bipod or underbarrel weight, coat it in ruthenium and put a supressor on the barrel. For stealth action, a grenade launcher is Not what you want to use or even carry ;) . Second option would be a combination of assault-shotgun + light machine gun. In confined spaces, you want to use the shotgun, while in the open, the machine gun is the weapon of choice. Of course, you need a gyromount for the gun, either strapped on, or built into a cyberarm. I suggest a light machine gun, because medium or heavy don't work with a cyberarm-gyromount and are too large, bulky and heavy to carry. With a medium or heavy, sitting in a conventional car seat would already be near impossible. With this combination, you have more direct firepower, especially if you put an underbarrel grenade launcher on the LMG. The gyromount grants lots of recoil-comp, you can fire full auto as much as you like. Drawbacks being, you loose the option of the missile launcher, or need another skill. If you don't take the launch weapon skill anyway, make sure you have someone on your team who can make use of missiles, probably the rigger, with launchers mounted on vehicles or drones. Also, you need to rely on the taser or pistol, for stealthy shots. |
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Mar 22 2006, 05:45 PM
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#30
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Can't do that—it's integral. ~J |
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Mar 22 2006, 05:55 PM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
SMG is the Runners best friend. The same for (most) spec ops commandos. But since you're a Marine, ares alpha ;).
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Mar 22 2006, 06:04 PM
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#32
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
If you have a cyberarm gyromount, then a LMG is a better choice. As for size: since there's no rules for that you have to go with RL logic, and RL has such neat examples of weapons that would count as MMGs in SR3 as the Mk 48 Mod 0 which is an inch shorter and 2˝ pounds heavier than an M249 (which would count as an LMG in SR3) with rail mounts. That's not to say it isn't bulky, but you could sit in a conventional car seat while carrying it just fine. Firing it while sitting in a car is a huge pain in the ass, but so is firing the (0.6" shorter) M16A2. RL HMGs are completely different, of course.
As I mentioned above, that isn't strictly necessary if you've got a BOD or STR of 8 or higher (and the character in question has). A gyromount is great in that it allows you to fire the full 10 rounds of FA with no recoil mods, but you can still fire 2 bursts of 3 just fine with a customized LMG or MMG. A HMG is a bit more problematic, since resisting 5L Stun isn't quite as trivial as 3L or 4L.
IRL, this would make a lot of sense. In SR3, unfortunately, there is no penalty whatsoever to using large guns in confined spaces -- the troll with the Assault Cannon suffers no penalties compared to the dwarf with the handgun. Still, having only Heavy Weapons and Launch Weapons as your main (let alone only) ranged combat skills is not very reasonable. |
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Mar 22 2006, 06:36 PM
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#33
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
There is only one way to solve this.
Maneuver Score! ~J |
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Mar 22 2006, 08:35 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784 |
don't forget (SR3 I'm assuming), with a Str/Bod 8, you can get another +2 RC from foot anchors and -2 to knockdown tests with a balance augmenter.
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Mar 22 2006, 08:46 PM
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#35
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Cant do that either. Gas vents are install only, and you cant remove them. |
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Mar 22 2006, 08:52 PM
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#36
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
!
You're right, thanks. Make that two guns, then—the expensive bits (sensor package, etc.) can be swapped between them. ~J |
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Mar 24 2006, 07:57 PM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 7-December 05 Member No.: 8,056 |
I have found the big problem to face with a gun to be spirits. Someone else mentioned the Yahama Pulsar as a anti-spirit sidearm. I agree with that. I would add a Remington Roomsweeper or sawed off SPAS-22?? loaded with the flame producing rounds from the Cannon Companion, Big D rounds or something like that. I would go with a custom sniper rifle from Cannon Companion for your main gun. Give it a clip so you can change between EX or AV ammo quickly if you need to. I believe you can get a 16S from the rifle plus 2 for EX explosive gives 18S versus spirits. That will hurt up to a force 8 spirit maybe force 9 I can't remember exactly how the Armor power works. Assault rifles are cool and very popular with the real world militaries but there are no creatures with the Armor power in real life. Summoning spirits is really easy in SR3. So easy it was made much more difficult in SR4. Remember APDS/AV ammo does not change a spirit's hardened armor value of twice its' force. Plan for the worst hope for the best. An assault cannon is also a possibility but I prefer the SA rate of fire of the sniper rifle over the SS rate of fire of the assault cannon.
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Mar 24 2006, 08:44 PM
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#38
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Elemental damage only halves spirit armor. It isn't worth spending the points for an entirely new skill. The pulsar is good for spirits and for dealing stun damage but if you want adedicated anti-spirit weapon ask your GM to let you have a Ronco Pocket Fisherman. Its is compact and easily concealed and it is highly effective against all but the most powerful spirits if you have the stats for it.
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Mar 24 2006, 08:48 PM
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#39
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Underbarrel flamethrower.
~J |
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Mar 24 2006, 09:19 PM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 314 Joined: 25-February 06 Member No.: 8,307 |
Underb... that's ludicrous! That may be the silli... wait~
Small compressed fuel bottle, balanced to provide some recoil comp, or could be used as a handgrip? Igniter would be lightweight... :eek: IT COULD WORK! |
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Mar 24 2006, 09:37 PM
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#41
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Actually, the canon "underbarrel flamethrower" is a modification to the nozzle to mount it an underbarrel configuration with a more convenient trigger—the fuel's still strapped to your back like usual (or wherever else you keep the tanks).
~J |
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Mar 28 2006, 03:01 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 16-October 05 Member No.: 7,848 |
don't they have an underbarrel flamethrower in cannon companion?
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Mar 28 2006, 03:14 AM
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#43
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes and no. Like I said, it's a modification to a standard flamethrower to mount the nozzle in an underbarrel configuration. They don't have a self-contained underbarrel flamethrower.
~J |
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Mar 28 2006, 05:19 AM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Yes, they do. It's SMG sized.
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Mar 28 2006, 05:40 AM
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#45
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Reread the Blazer's entry. It's certainly a self-contained bullpup-SMG-sized flamethrower, but it doesn't attach under any barrels.
~J |
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Mar 28 2006, 06:14 AM
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#46
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
It does if you use enough duct tape.
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Mar 28 2006, 06:18 AM
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#47
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :grinbig: Duct Tape is the soloution to all your problems. :) You can even enough of it to form a mystical barrier that prevents Greater Dragons from moving or casting spells. http://members.aol.com/MrZeebub/RescuesUnlimited.html But of course, our Marine friend here is missing the obvious. His DM has basically given him liscene to use any weapon he can name. The words out of his pen, onto his character sheet, should be "belt-fed Panther AC". |
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Apr 3 2006, 08:35 AM
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#48
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Its more Stargate-y, but I've gotten fond of the p90. I'm all for a weapon that's easier to hide and can unload madness on you as needed. A nice autoshotgun might be useful for a marine tho.
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Apr 3 2006, 02:08 PM
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#49
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The P90 is a personal defense weapon designed to be used by vehicle crews are other personel who are unlikely to see combat but need a weapon just in case. This discussion has gone round-and-round on SG-1 boards and the general concensus is that it was an intentional snafu on the part of the show's producers due to the fact that the P90 was easier on the crew and the budget for various reasons. For example, because the P90 ejects downward the actors can stand closer together in firefight scenes without worring about hot brass in their faces.
Giving one to a marine as a replacement for a battle rifle and expecting him to fight more effectivly is like giving a Boeing 747 to a group of astronauts as a replacement for a space shuttle and then wondering why they can't get to the moon. |
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Apr 3 2006, 03:09 PM
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#50
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Enfield AS-7. For when you need to unleash a whole lot of hurt at short range. We had to take out some guy in a limo once. We knew he was going to be driving past a specific intersection. So, one of the runners dressed like a homeless guy trying to wash the limo's windshield. When the irate driver cracked his window to yell at the earnest window washer a thermal smoke grenade was dropped in. The grenade in question had been modified to add hot pepper powder to the burn mix, so you can imagine the occupants of the car wanted out very quickly. We had PLANNED to just grab the exiting passengers and wrestle them to the ground, but the street sam with a brand new toy decided to test it out. He unloaded a full clip of shotgun gel ammo, full-auto, into the first hapless soul that stepped out of the car. The results were not pretty. We gave the sam a very stern talking to afterwards. :D -karma |
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