Knockdown?, What does it DO? Options

[Jeremymia]

I'm playing a guy who refuses to kill, so me and my gel rounds are best friends. Tonight, during a practice fight, I did a single 1S against a guy (he got SIX succeses on Impact + Body, amazingly), but he only has 3 body, so that should knock him over, right? (Gel rounds reduce body by 2 for the sake of calculating knock down)

So I look at the rules, and they very clearly explain how to knock someone down. However, they don't explain AT ALL what happens when someone is knocked down, except the melee modifier where the one knocked down is at a "superior position" and thus gets +2.

What else is the effect here? What actions can a knocked down person do, and what can't he do? Does he have certain modifiers acting on him? Where in the book is this?

Thanks so much ^_^

[Dranem]

Note: That even Gel rounds can kill someone - with a lucky shot.

Lets see.. they're knocked down.. on their but or back. Meaning the pretty much have to get up first before doing anything else but shoot back and yell insults at you - which will cause them to lose at least an action if not the whole combat round to get back on their feet..

[Jeremymia]

I don't understand how someone can dodge while they're laying down. I'm willing to let this go, because a game should never embrace realism over fun, but do you think there's a list somewhere of what someone CAN and CAN'T do when knocked down? After all, I don't see the point in someone standing up if they can shoot just as well.

And: Eek! Gel rounds kill? How does that happen?

[Crusher Bob]

In general, what the knockdown rules in SR do is make anyone with a background in physics sick thier fingers in thier ears and say, "LALALALALALA".

As for what you can do while knocked down:

You obviously can't run or walk, fighting someone in melee who is not also knocked down gives you a penalty. Depending on the scenery, this may also change his lines of sight (fall behind the couch, or whatever)

[The Horror]

Being knocked down:

- may put you completely behind cover and unable to fire, or knock you off the edge of a building...
- means you have to spend an action to get up.
- means you cannot perform a full dodge (houseruling).

[FrankTrollman]

[hobgoblin]

[Dv84good]

Isn't there a rule saying you have to roll (body + will) to get up off the ground.

[hobgoblin]

if he is wonded yes. i guess its up to the gm to enforce that...

[Dashifen]

[Zen Shooter01]

I am so sick of this laws of physics thing RE knockdown.

For the LAST TIME: every action has an equal an opposite reaction, so, the physicists say, if the attack knocks down the target, it should also knock down the attacker.

This is totally wrong.

First of all, people who get punched, kicked, and especially shot in the real world show a marked tendency to fall down. They fall down because the shock of the attack makes them dizzy, surprises them, unexpectedly shifts their center of gravity, causes pain, causes their muscles to spasm or go limp, or even destroys the muscles and bones that are holding them up. It's not just a matter of raw force. It's a matter of physiological and psychological reaction.

Trust me. I fire 12 guages fairly often, and I haven't fallen down doing it. But if a human being took that load of buckshot at thirty feet, he'd end up on his keister, if he had a keister left to end up on.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Or he might simply stare in disbelief, or run away only to collapse after 30 feet. Or he might charge you. Or do just about anything else. The only reliable form of knockdown is where you instantly disable the target's CNS. A shotgun firing buckshot at close range is very likely to cause critical injuries so the chances of immediately incapacitating the target are quite decent, but I wouldn't bet my life on that.

A rule for determining whether being wounded causes temporary incapacitation is not necessarily a bad thing. The fact that the rule is called "knockdown" in SR, and depends only on the Power/base Damage Code of the attack and the Body of the target heavily implies that raw force is what the designers had in mind. Which is unfortunate.

[Aku]

Austere, do yu actually KNOW anyone, whose first though, upong being shot, is "oh sh*t, he's got a gun. CHARGE!"?

Would not be high on my thought list, thats for sure, i definately think, my first reaction, upon determine i'm aliv,e would be to play dead or get KNOCKDOWN'd

[JustSix]

Not only does getting knocked down reduce your ability to dodge (as mentioned above), it requires a Simple Action to get back on your feet -- thus "wasting" an action. That means one less shot/burst, and totally precludes a mage casting a spell.

[Azralon]

[JustSix]

[Butterblume]

This doesn't apply for ranged Attacks unless the attacker ist very close (5m).

[Azralon]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Aku]

well, i can see that, not only because people tend to keep doing what they were doing, no matter what happens, but also because of the adreneline rish, of charging someone (assumeing, ofcourse that there was some emotional... charge... to the charge) would likely fend off the "oh shit i'm shot" aspect of it.

I was thinking of a stationary target (likely in the fist round of combat perhaps, where the person hasnt had a chance to react yet)

[Austere Emancipa...]

When the person being shot is completely surprised, temporary psychological incapacitation is, I assume, much more likely. The more adrenaline (and other chemicals) there are running through the target's system, the more likely he is to be able to function after being shot. It's pretty difficult to take this into account in the rules, however, other than through the effect of drugs or by making subsequent injuries have a lesser chance of psychological incapacitation.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Ah, OK, so that's changed from SR3.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Well, yes and no... even SR3 did base the possibility of knockdown on the actual damage to a degree.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Knocking back, yes, knocking down, no.