Weapons Foci, Do they need to be weapons? Options

[Edward]

I believe its not the claymore that should be the weapon focus. A force 5 weapon focus brass knuckles in your pocket (reach 0 relatively cheep) gives its benefit when your swinging a claymore, gaining the reach advantage

I however would say that it doesn’t work. A weapon focus only applies dice to attacks made when using the focus as a weapon. If you want a unarmed weapon focus resurrect the old hardliner gloves, or good old fashioned brass knuckles (these are weapons), or even enchant normal gloves (with GM permission). You would have to strike with the enchanted object in these cases, you don’t get extra kick damage for wearing brass knuckles do you

I’m still trying to work out if they removed expendable spell foci because they where so expensive nobody would ever use them. Or so cheep and easy to make that they where being over used.

Edward

[Shrike30]

Personally, I'd allow something like the "bear claw necklace" example given earlier if the weapon focus was for unarmed combat, but it would have to be defined as *unarmed* combat (meaning, shock gloves or brass knuckles would *not* benefit from them). Essentially allowing a player to do something interesting and stylish, while trying to avoid opening too large of a gap towards twinkdom. In the case of an actual weapon (say, those aforementioned shock gloves, or a katana, or whatever) you could get them as a weapon focus, but the bonus would only apply while using them, not in general.

[neko128]

[Butterblume]

[Waltermandias]

I think that the inclusion of reach factoring into the price of the weapon focus is enough evidence that the focus itself has to be a weapon and presumably you have to hit people with this weapon to get the benefits.

That being said, I like the bear claw necklace thing as well, and I think that altering rules to allow players to do neat things is both allowable and desirable. As such I totally agree with Shrike30's excellent suggestion.

[James McMurray]

My take:

"Weapon" focus is a pretty self explanatery term. It's not "random object" focus. It's "weapon" focus.

The rule specifically states:

1) You hit people with your weapon focus.
2) Your weapon focus's damage is the same as an equivilent weapon.

To me, one makes it pretty clear that your focus must be a weapon. You don't hit people with a bear claw necklace or a mystical jock strap (at least, hopefully not).

Two also makes it pretty clear. Even if you could get a weapon focus bear claw necklace, when you hit someone with it you'll do the same damage as a normal bear claw necklace: i.e. not much at all. If you're not hitting someone with it, you're not using your weapon focus.

What that bear claw necklace should be, in keeping with past editions and presumably future expansion products: is a talisman, granting higher adept powers for unarmed combat when worn. I would most definitely allow it, although I'm not sure exactly what rules I'd be using, and it would be made clear that when Magic 4.0 comes out, the new system will get switched to unless entirely unworkable for the character.

[Azralon]

[Cain]

[James McMurray]

Pg. 192

[Cain]

Let's put your quote in context, shall we? I'll highlight a few things that you might have missed.

[James McMurray]

IT shows how hitting someone in astral space differs from hitting someone in physical space, not that you don't hit someone in physical space. And like I said, I also like the idea of the bear claw necklace, but it ain't a weapon focus, it's a talisman other magic item.

But then again, it's pretty obvious that my view of reality and yours are disconnected somewhere, so you do it how you want in your SR4 games and I'll do it how I want in mine.

[Azralon]

[NightHaunter]

The rules as written imply both arguments at the same time.

One of my players is of the opinion that a weapon focus is bonded to a specific weapon, including a metahuman body, and the bonus only applies to melee rolls made with said weapon. However the focus does not have to be the weapon itself. Also in this case as the weapon itself is not the focus so does not an active astral presence, it is unavailable for use in astral combat, excepting the metahuman body.

My opinion is that the weapon focus must be the weapon itself as this is the only way of making it astrally active and therefore usable in astral combat, it is my belief that this is also the intent of the rules.

However in order to get a conclusive opinion fanpro/wizkids should probably be consulted.

[Shrike30]

The way I've decided to handle the whole "Bear Claw Necklace" thing is pretty simple... it's not a "Weapon Focus" in the sense that it, itself, is not a weapon, but as far as all of the rules are concerned it is purchased, bonded, and has the same effects as a Weapon Focus when the character using it strikes things in Unarmed or Astral combat (truly unarmed... no benefitting shock gloves, etc). It's also regulated like a Weapon Focus, legally treated like a Weapon Focus, and traded on the black market like a Weapon Focus.

So, if you want to call it a "Talisman of Flipping Out and Killing People All The Time," go for it. I'm fine with allowing my players to pack what is essentially a weak weapon focus (because you don't get the benefit of the baseline weapon profile but have all the drawbacks of carrying a weapon focus except for actually carrying a mundane weapon) if they want to.