Stuff begging to be updated |
Stuff begging to be updated |
Mar 28 2006, 09:23 PM
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#1
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
There's a few holes in SR4 that will be covered by future products, but which impact currently ongoing campaigns or conversion of older material. It's probably been handled elsewhere already, but if so, let me know where and I'll stroll away happily. :-)
1) Hardened Armor: Two options (really three, as you could combine the two)
There are other options, involving ratios of armor to free hits, etc. but those two are the obvious ones. A side effect of allowing hardened armor would be APDS suddenly becomes a useful ammo again, if you allow it to negatively affect hardened armor (such as by negating the bonus). 2) Background Count: again, two options (three if combined)
Background count has always been one of the best ways to bring the power level of magic down. Either of the above options (alternatively applied somehow to drain tests as well) could be useful. Just casting an attack spell increases the count by at least one, more if people start dying. 3) Dikote: something I never really cared for, but it's always been there, so could probably stand a new version. If I were to bother with it, I'd probably have it make armor count as hardned (and limit which armors it could be applied to). I'd also have it increase the DV of melee weapons by 1. Just +1 may sound like too little at first, given the old versions of Dikote, but +1 is effective -3 resistance dice, which sounds pretty beefy to me. Anybody else have stuff from prior editions that needs updating? |
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Mar 29 2006, 03:29 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Dicote should only provide+1DV on a sharp weapon.
Remember it used to be +1 power (always) +1DL on slashing weapons. Personally I don’t see any advantage to a dicoated club. Edward |
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Mar 29 2006, 07:01 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
*shrug* It's harder? Think aluminum bat versus wood bat, except the alley-bat weighs the same as the wooden one now...
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Mar 29 2006, 07:19 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
how about -1 ap?
cheers, max |
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Mar 29 2006, 08:05 PM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that I'd open up Dikote's full usage to blunt weapons. That would stay the same as in previous editions. So maybe +1 DV for edged, -1 AP for everything?
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Mar 29 2006, 09:00 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Shouldn't it be awesomer? Like, +2/-2? Otherwise, anything with EX/EX would destroy melee in terms of damage.
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Mar 29 2006, 09:01 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Who is to say it doesn't ?
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Mar 29 2006, 10:57 PM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Doesn't what?
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Mar 29 2006, 11:19 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
if you continue the edition change patterns, it is possible Dikote will nto give bonuses anymore, as 3e Dikote was significantly weaker than 2e Dikote
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Mar 29 2006, 11:32 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It'll almost assuredly do something, just not likely to be anywhere near as nice as +1 power +1 DL.
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Mar 29 2006, 11:39 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
or te 2e version which also had , ignore the monuses when going up aggainst vehicle targets.. but also ignore the vehicle rules and treat it as a non vehicular target
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Mar 29 2006, 11:44 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Or the 1e version, which basically said "I win."
Ok, I don't remember the 1e version, but that appears to be the progression so far. :) |
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Mar 30 2006, 12:17 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Which is why you're paying 10 :nuyen: a round for EXEX ammunition. I just made EXEX stop existing in my game. Fixed a lot of problems. |
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Mar 30 2006, 12:43 AM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
:nuyen: 10 a round is nothing if each one kills somebody. And does the :nuyen: go before or after the number?
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Mar 30 2006, 12:50 AM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
After. And I agree, I'll gladly pay 10:nuyen: a round for soemthing as blatantly powerful as EXEX. I'm not sure what we'll do in my games, but it might just be a more liberal interpreatation of the fire element effects making the PCs a little leery.
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Mar 30 2006, 03:24 AM
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#16
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I jacked up the availiability on it, and the other game-breaking ammo (APDS, AV). It was still very cool to get, but much harder to find, and thus more valued. People certainly weren't blowing it left and right, a problem I've seen frequently. |
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Mar 30 2006, 04:12 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
APDS game-breaking?
How? |
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Mar 30 2006, 04:49 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I personally would rather have Ex ammo than APDS. Same general stats but better against unarmored foes and a damn sight cheaper and easier to find.
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Mar 30 2006, 06:16 AM
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#19
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
In one SR2 campaign, APDS became so prevalent that it was standard-issue for every runner. We were packing belts and belts of the stuff, enough so that we never needed to buy anything else. Armor became essentially useless, since you couldn't pack enough of it on to make more than a small difference. In SR3, it gave too much power to hold outs. Also, it really messed up high-end opponents, who tended to wear heavier armor in the first place. The scaled nature of APDS (half armor) really screwed heavily armored opponents a lot more than lightly armored ones. |
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Mar 30 2006, 07:15 AM
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#20
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Excuse me.....
In SR3 an character with a lined coat or better will be resisting a TN of 2 vs an APDS equipped hold out pistol. The same character would also be resisting against a TN of 2 vs a hold out pistol with standard ammo because the TN cannot be lower than 2. Unless your GM is crazy enough to allow gel packs APDS will do nothing in a holdout pistol most of the time. If your GM does allow gelpacks the holdout APDS can defeat a sull suit of hardened FFBA when a regular holdout can't. This isn't exactly gamebreaking. |
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Mar 30 2006, 08:17 AM
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#21
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
The problem was indeed hardened armor. Modified hold-outs could threaten people in light mil-spec. AV was worse, since now your Ares Predator could take out a Steel Lynx with a good shot.
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Mar 30 2006, 09:05 AM
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#22
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Armor piercing bullets that actually pierce armor. That is most certainly broken.
From a ballistics standpoint pistol APDS is absurd, but it is consistant with in game logic. From a ballistics standpoint pistol AV is absurd but it is also consistant with in game logic. |
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Mar 30 2006, 04:02 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
In what way is APDS absurd from a ballistics point of view? |
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Mar 30 2006, 05:20 PM
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#24
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
That its used in pistols. Others on thus fourm are more familiar with the math than I but this subject has come up before.
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Mar 30 2006, 05:27 PM
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#25
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I actually prefer the SR4 method on this one-- armor-piercing bullets that have a fixed reduction, as opposed to a scaled one. High-end armor becomes a little less scary, but is still tough. APDS + Heavy Pistols used to mean that mil-spec was nearly useless.
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