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> Resonance/Magic loss due to Essence loss a penalty, or a reduction?
Glayvin34
post Mar 29 2006, 05:43 PM
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I've been combing through the SR4 book and I can't figure this out. I'm currently playing a TM with a Resonance of 5 and I'm thinking of getting a skillwire set for him. That would lower his Resonance to 4 (regardless of skillwire rating). Afterwards, I will want to increase his resonance back to 5, still under the maximum of 6 for characters without any submersion levels.
Is his Resonance still 5 (with a minus 1), or is it 4? Basically, does that Resonance increase cost 15 Karma or 18 Karma?

Said it before, got to say it again: Why aren't Shadowrun words in the freakin' spell check dictionary on this board??
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Dashifen
post Mar 29 2006, 05:48 PM
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If you have a resonance of 5 and install the skillwires, you now have a resonance of 4. Thus, if you wanted to buy another point of resonance you're going from 4 to 5, thus it would cost you 15 karma. The reduction to magic and resonance as a result of 'ware is a direct subtraction, not a modification like that 'ware's effects on the physical or mental attributes.

As for the spell check thing, that's because the spell check software was written for the English language and SR words are not words in English (i.e. skillwires). Deal with it and do what I do .... don't spell check your posts :rotfl:
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Butterblume
post Mar 29 2006, 06:26 PM
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But remember that your new basic resonance maximum is 5 unless you [insert the term for technomancers initiation here].

It's awesome what you can get for one point of essence in cyber/bioware ;).
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Dashifen
post Mar 29 2006, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (Butterblume)
[insert the term for technomancers initiation here].

Submerge
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Glayvin34
post Mar 29 2006, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (Butterblume)
But remember that your new basic resonance maximum is 5 unless you [insert the term for technomancers initiation here].

I'm painfully aware. :(
But my character is the only technically-minded one in the group, so we need a demolitionist, a rigger, and a hacker all rolled into one TM. Skillsofts are clearly the way to go. And I can pick up Alphaware rating 4 skillsofts for .64 essence, and still fit a cerebral booster rating 3. All in all, worth the Resonace issues.
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neko128
post Mar 29 2006, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (Glayvin34)
QUOTE (Butterblume)
But remember that your new basic resonance maximum is 5 unless you [insert the term for technomancers initiation here].

I'm painfully aware. :(
But my character is the only technically-minded one in the group, so we need a demolitionist, a rigger, and a hacker all rolled into one TM. Skillsofts are clearly the way to go. And I can pick up Alphaware rating 4 skillsofts for .64 essence, and still fit a cerebral booster rating 3. All in all, worth the Resonace issues.

It's going to be rough to do all of them, because they need different groups of skills. Yes, the skills overlap, but only to an extent. For example, both hackers and riggers use skills from both the Electronics and Cracking group, but they emphasize different ones (hacking for hackers, hardware for riggers, etcetera). In addition, riggers need to pump points into things like Gunnery and Armorer and Pilot, unless they're going to purely count on Pilot ratings.

Add on top of that, they then continue to compete on resources. Both need a good, solid Commlink; but hackers need good, high-end programs very badly, while Riggers need autosofts and pilots and drones and weapons.

It's possible; it's just very likely you'll be either a good hacker, a good rigger, or a medicore hacker+rigger.
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neko128
post Mar 29 2006, 06:58 PM
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Oh, and aren't rating 4 skillwires too high availability for starting characters?
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Shrike30
post Mar 29 2006, 07:18 PM
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I believe Resonance loss is treated exactly like Magic loss... it's a (permanent) penalty, not a simple reduction. So, you'd basically be at Resonance 5 (4).
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Glayvin34
post Mar 29 2006, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (neko128)
Oh, and aren't rating 4 skillwires too high availability for starting characters?

This character isn't starting out, we've already done a few missions so far. He's already a badass Hacker with associated skills, but without weapons or piloting capability. His only defense is his car and a few Drones. I wanted to tack on a mid-level rigger archetype to protect his ass in the valley of darkness, and stick in the ability to shoot a pistol and actually hit something.
Sure the rigger side will be weak, you can only get up to rating 4 skillsofts anyway, but that's better than what we got, which is no one with Armorer, any Pilot, Gunnery or Demolitions. The few runs we've pulled so far have certainly hit a wall or two due to the lack of these skills in the team.
I figure I can try to finagle more "right skills at the right time" bonus Karma with a skillwire set, too. :D
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Butterblume
post Mar 29 2006, 07:19 PM
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Rating 3 cerebral boosters aren't available for beginners either, so i think this guy is planning ahead ;).
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Glayvin34
post Mar 29 2006, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
I believe Resonance loss is treated exactly like Magic loss... it's a (permanent) penalty, not a simple reduction. So, you'd basically be at Resonance 5 (4).

I was looking for that exact phrasing in the book, you wouldn't happen to have a page number?
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Butterblume
post Mar 29 2006, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
I believe Resonance loss is treated exactly like Magic loss... it's a (permanent) penalty, not a simple reduction.  So, you'd basically be at Resonance 5 (4).

I believe you'r right that it is treated equally, but i think its a reduction of both current and max rating :D.
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Butterblume
post Mar 29 2006, 07:27 PM
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It is on page 62, and it is named a penalty. But actually it is a reduction ;).
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Azathfeld
post Mar 29 2006, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (Glayvin34)
QUOTE (Butterblume)
But remember that your new basic resonance maximum is 5 unless you [insert the term for technomancers initiation here].

I'm painfully aware. :(
But my character is the only technically-minded one in the group, so we need a demolitionist, a rigger, and a hacker all rolled into one TM. Skillsofts are clearly the way to go. And I can pick up Alphaware rating 4 skillsofts for .64 essence, and still fit a cerebral booster rating 3. All in all, worth the Resonace issues.

Sprites are your friends. The right sprites can operate your drones or hack for you, only requiring you to be the one setting off the demolitions.

Unless, of course, you build the explosives themselves into drones, which you have your machine sprites pilot into place. ;)
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Jaid
post Mar 30 2006, 01:07 AM
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demolitions in skillsoft form = bad idea.

try and convince your DM you can have an autosoft for demolitions. presumably with an appropriate modification to a drone.

after all, demolitions is one of those skills where you really, really want to be able to negate glitches and critical glitches.

(glitch while cooking = burnt the chicken around the edges. glitch while setting explosives = they go off before you're out of range. the first one is not such a big deal, the second one on the other hand.... )
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Glayvin34
post Mar 30 2006, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid)
after all, demolitions is one of those skills where you really, really want to be able to negate glitches and critical glitches.

That is a damn good point. A lot of Logic and Edge (which I got) should keep glitch-related problems to a minimum, but I'd rather just risk a drone instead of my own ass.
I'm assuming that there are more autosofts out there than just the five presented in the drones section, there's obvisously a First Aid/Medicine autosoft for Autodocs and MedKits, they even mention it on page 244. I don't see why you couldn't get a demolitions autosoft, I'm going to start wearing down my GM for that exact thing.
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Jaid
post Mar 30 2006, 11:30 PM
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if you need examples of why a drone might have a demolitions autosoft, it could very well be on a bomb squad (even modern bomb squads will use remote control vehicles in bomb disposal), or as a military minesweeper, or in the military deploying explosives even (just as a couple of examples).
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Dranem
post Mar 31 2006, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE (neko128)
Add on top of that, they then continue to compete on resources. Both need a good, solid Commlink; but hackers need good, high-end programs very badly, while Riggers need autosofts and pilots and drones and weapons.

It's possible; it's just very likely you'll be either a good hacker, a good rigger, or a medicore hacker+rigger.

Neko, he's playing a Technomancer.... no need for a commlink or programs. Though reducing his Resonance might affect how many complex forms he can take.

As it's mentioned by Azathfeld, increase your Tasking group and you can compile Sprites to fill some of the voids of creating a well-rounded technology expert.
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Dranem
post Mar 31 2006, 08:56 AM
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The new SR rules when it comes to reducing the Resonance cap AND your resonance with ware really made it challenging converting an Otaku who had survived fading of the Matrix Crash and re-awoken as a Technomancer.

In the end I tossed the whole concept, and created from scratch with a lot less ware in his body than the SR3 Otaku had...
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Glayvin34
post Mar 31 2006, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Dranem)
The new SR rules when it comes to reducing the Resonance cap AND your resonance with ware really made it challenging converting an Otaku who had survived fading of the Matrix Crash and re-awoken as a Technomancer.

I hear that one, I have a huge problem with TMs being unable to handle implants, I think the whole essence-loss/resonance-loss thing was a poor choice as a balancing factor for TMs.
At a minimum, resonance losses should be unaffected by Bioware. But ideally TMs would have a RL-level drawback based on resonance- the more resonance you have, the more powerful TM you are, but the less you get to interact with the meat world effectively. I think that's a better balancing factor that makes more sense.
The current way suggests that the less "natural" TMs are, i.e. the more implants they have, the less they are able to resonate with the Matrix. Given that both the Matrix and implants are technology based on electronic signals, I don't see why they're mutually exclusive for technomancers. Makes perfect sense for Mages, but not TMs.
The SR3 Otaku resonated with the Matrix while implants, or at least a datajack, were an integral part of the experience that seemed to fit in without question. To apply the essence-loss penalties looks like tacking on a Mage attribute.
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hyzmarca
post Mar 31 2006, 06:43 PM
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There's no telling what kind of arcane magics the IEs and GDs incorporated into the new wireless matrix infrastructure.
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