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> Skill wires rort., Skill wires for a hacker
Edward
post Apr 4 2006, 01:06 AM
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Skill wires rort.
Skill wires for a hacker

It has been previously demonstrated that a hacker at char gen can be truly 133t. Capable of hacking into almost any host. Some tricks of arcetecture can beat him but only on very high security systems.

In game, after saving enough money a hacker could without real difficulty obtain skill wires 4, especially if he dose so legally using a sin (real or fake). After doing so a well built hacker could easily hack into an online store that sells skill wires, insert a purchase order for the full inventory, immediately receive the electronic transfer of the programs, remove the purchase order from the system, remove the record of delivery, double check to ensure there are no other logs and leave no evidence that he was ever there. Instant shill wire based combat hacker (assuming stats where reasonable to start with). If he makes a mistake he is naturally in a moving vehicle and using a suitably anonymous COM link and capable of trying again with another provider of that service.

Is this possible? Is this reasonable? What can a GM do to make this not be the complete rort that it appears to be?

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James McMurray
post Apr 4 2006, 01:14 AM
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He can simply explain to his players that words like "rort" don't exist and then move on with his game. ;)
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nick012000
post Apr 4 2006, 01:32 AM
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Just put lots of high-rating Black IC on the node. Those softs are worth several thousand :nuyen: apeice, they'd be insane if they didn't put lots of security on the node.
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James McMurray
post Apr 4 2006, 01:39 AM
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In a world where hackers fall out of trees and it takes specific architectural tricks to combat them, those tricks are probably fairly common.
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Edward
post Apr 4 2006, 01:40 AM
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No amount of ice will protect it from a hacker with skill 6 exploit specialisation, prog 5, running hot sim and hacking in slowly, assuming system rating 5 (the highest that is reasonable, although its not much harder on a system 6) there is a very low chance intrusion will be detected gaining admin access, if it is the hacker can try again on one of the many other nodes offering the same service, never having bothered to engage the ice.

Being a node that is involved in high speed eCommerce the architectural tricks to defend against these types of incursions are inappropriate.

Edward
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James McMurray
post Apr 4 2006, 01:45 AM
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Then eCommerce will possibly collapse as a viable purchasing capability. You don't sell stuff by dropping it on the street corner and walking away with the hopes that someone will pay for it instead of just picking it up and walking away.
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nick012000
post Apr 4 2006, 01:57 AM
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Yes, IC is effective. Remember Teamwork tests. When you have 20 Rating 6 IC Programs actively looking for unautorized users, anyone who gets in is going to be spotted (The lead one will be rolling, on average, 84 dice). He is then going to die.
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Jaid
post Apr 4 2006, 02:40 AM
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actually, when you have 20 rating 6 IC programs on the node, the node will go down to response 1 and so will all that IC.

perhaps you should instead consider the possibility of patrolling security hackers, each with agents on patrol as well.
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James McMurray
post Apr 4 2006, 03:19 AM
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Plus IC can't use teamwork tests, only characters.
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Glayvin34
post Apr 4 2006, 03:20 AM
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In the Sixth World Wiki it describes "Hacker House", a cool Matrix locale where you can apparently buy just about any program you desire, but they don't have any full programs on the server. You buy it and then pick up a datachip that someone drops off for you.
It seems that any secure server won't be accessible via the Matrix. If something valuable like skillsofts, purchase orders or bank information is stored on it, it likely doesn't even have a wireless connection, just a physical one that is physically plugged in as needed, that's an easy way to get around any hacker, no matter how badass he is.
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Glayvin34
post Apr 4 2006, 03:21 AM
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whoops
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Dranem
post Apr 4 2006, 03:37 AM
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My questions are:

1) Why would a hacker bother with Skillwires? A properly built leet hacker isn't going to have the strength or body to deal with little more than the technical Skillwire sets. Good for driving and drone rigging I suppose.
2) How do you think that downloading that much data is going to be instantaneous when the online node as to a) validate the purchase b) confirm billing information and c) transfer the data, that much information isn't instantaneous. (most likely via chip delivery unless you're a AA+ corporation)
3) What makes you think that the node is going to have a low level firewall?
4) Even you're omni-potent Exploit 6 isn't infallable against a store with high a high level firewall.. particularly the purchasing server.
Then there's always a chance to glitch or critical glitch your hacking test, and no amount of Exploit is going to save your meat from BlackIC.

and last of all
5) Hope you're hacker has a lotta cash, cause what you want ain't cheap chummer.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Apr 4 2006, 05:56 AM
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QUOTE (Edward)
Skill wires rort.
Skill wires for a hacker

It has been previously demonstrated that a hacker at char gen can be truly 133t. Capable of hacking into almost any host. Some tricks of arcetecture can beat him but only on very high security systems.

In game, after saving enough money a hacker could without real difficulty obtain skill wires 4, especially if he dose so legally using a sin (real or fake). After doing so a well built hacker could easily hack into an online store that sells skill wires, insert a purchase order for the full inventory, immediately receive the electronic transfer of the programs, remove the purchase order from the system, remove the record of delivery, double check to ensure there are no other logs and leave no evidence that he was ever there. Instant shill wire based combat hacker (assuming stats where reasonable to start with). If he makes a mistake he is naturally in a moving vehicle and using a suitably anonymous COM link and capable of trying again with another provider of that service.

Is this possible? Is this reasonable? What can a GM do to make this not be the complete rort that it appears to be?

Color me a newb, but what's "rort" mean?
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Teulisch
post Apr 4 2006, 06:03 AM
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i just looked on google... aparently its australian, and means to take 'unfair advantage of a public service'.
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yesman
post Apr 4 2006, 06:26 AM
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wouldn't a better trick be to hack some wage slave's comlink, drive the poor SOB into heavy debt ordering your Skips, then move them from his comlink to your own.
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The Jopp
post Apr 4 2006, 07:51 AM
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QUOTE (yesman)
wouldn't a better trick be to hack some wage slave's comlink, drive the poor SOB into heavy debt ordering your Skips, then move them from his comlink to your own.

That would probably be easier since all you do is hack the commlink, crack the encryption on the SIN information and then gain access everything there is to know…except the passwords.

IF you are lucky then you have an average joe with saved passwords on his commlink but most likely there’s a limit on how much you can buy on pure wireless without a physical identification and an acceptance of the transaction.

Still, it might be possible – it’s just a matter of finding that wireless commlink with a crappy security and saved passwords on it…and considering how many people today has crap security on their wireless networks…
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Dranem
post Apr 4 2006, 08:45 AM
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Yeah the 6+ Firewall rating to hack into the encrypted portion of the commlink that holds the SIN and bank PINs is waaaay easier than making a purchase with a fake SIN....

I don't think so.
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The Jopp
post Apr 4 2006, 10:24 AM
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QUOTE (Dranem)
Yeah the 6+ Firewall rating to hack into the encrypted portion of the commlink that holds the SIN and bank PINs is waaaay easier than making a purchase with a fake SIN....

I don't think so.

The ”easy” part is that you use Average Joe’s bank account so it won’t cost you anything. Even if you got a fake SIN you would still need money.
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The Jopp
post Apr 4 2006, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (Dranem)
Yeah the 6+ Firewall rating to hack into the encrypted portion of the commlink that holds the SIN and bank PINs is waaaay easier than making a purchase with a fake SIN....

I don't think so.

The usual protection on average joes commlink is usually a rating 3 Firewall and Response 3. The encrypted information seems to be stored in a part of the commlink independent of the response rating of the commlink since all encryption regarding SIN’s is at a rating 5. This means that hacking the commlink would be a low threshold of 6.

After the commlink has been hacked (let’s assume Admin access) we decrypt (if needed unless we find the passwords) with a threshold of 10 (encryption X2).

This would probably be a valid tactic for smaller purchases since one could transfer cash from their accounts instantly over to a certified credstick and then spoof the traffic.
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Dranem
post Apr 4 2006, 11:04 AM
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Just how many dice are you rolling that you don't even hesitate in saying that gaining 6-10 successes on a roll is a cake walk? Either that, or you're not reading threshold rules properly.
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The Jopp
post Apr 4 2006, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE (Dranem)
Just how many dice are you rolling that you don't even hesitate in saying that gaining 6-10 successes on a roll is a cake walk? Either that, or you're not reading threshold rules properly.

Oh, I never said it was a cakewalk. Hacking an average joes commlink for a shadowrunner hacker (skill 6 Program 5) specialization (exploit +2) would roll 13-15 dice if doing full VR WOULD be a cakewalk. The encryption would be a bit harder.

Hacking Commlink of Average Joe
Hacker would roll an extended test against Firewall+Analyze (IF the program is loaded) and those would mostly be 3 so the threshold is 6. Hacker rolls 15D6. Target commlink may do 1 test against the Stealth program of the hacker (Treshold 5 with 6D6).

Cracking Encryption
Now, every combat turn said hacker might do a decrypt (without a key) at a threshold of say 10. He rolls Hacking+Decrypt (6+5) once every combat turn until success. If the commlink has IC, Agents or even a user present using Analyze programs they can find you by rolling against your Stealth programs. If they have no user online or no program running they MIGHT be found out if they glitch the test (gamemasters discretion)
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Divine Virus
post Apr 4 2006, 12:05 PM
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I would think that every company of level A or higher would exploy a Technomancer of some skill. Said technomancer, who is being hired to pwn any hackers who come along, would most likely bring sprites, and have spirtes encypt all the most valuable information as only sprites can. I don't care how high your skills are, when you have aa team of high level sprites patrolling, chances are you will be found and killed. cause lets face it, it takes a real nova hacker to take down a fault sprite at level 6 or higher.
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Grinder
post Apr 4 2006, 12:06 PM
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Technomancers are not that common.
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The Jopp
post Apr 4 2006, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE (Divine Virus)
I would think that every company of level A or higher would exploy a Technomancer of some skill. Said technomancer, who is being hired to pwn any hackers who come along, would most likely bring sprites, and have spirtes encypt all the most valuable information as only sprites can. I don't care how high your skills are, when you have aa team of high level sprites patrolling, chances are you will be found and killed. cause lets face it, it takes a real nova hacker to take down a fault sprite at level 6 or higher.

Now, remember. I’m talking about hacking the “average joe” on the street. In the case of corporations that the runners are infiltrating it’s up for the GM to crank up the defenses. ^__^
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Dashifen
post Apr 4 2006, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (Grinder)
Technomancers are not that common.

True, but that just makes them in higher demand :)
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