 Echoes from Earhtdawn in Shadowrun, or: IE's and dragons. |
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 Apr 8 2006, 08:14 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552  |
So, there's a lot of events in shadowrun that seem pretty weird, and I think the reason is that I've never read any ED books nor gdo I have any knowledge of it. The thing is, there's a lot of stuff that I'd like to get clarified.
Mystery no. 1: What's the deal between immortal elves and dragons? Why do they generally hate each other? Mystery no. 2: Assuming mystery no. 1 is correct, why did Lofwyr have a seat in the council of Princes, and later Hestaby? Mystery no. 3: What's that spirit in the Tunguska, assuming it came with the meteor, which, IIRC Harlequin had something to do with? Mystery no. 4: What's the reason for the secrecy of the IE's, is it just to maintain their power? There's no greater agenda? Some of you might find all this obvious, but the fact remains that a lot of going-ons in shadowrun have more or less to do with ED-history. |
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Apr 8 2006, 10:01 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
1) Ex-slaves tend to hold grudges against their former masters for irrationally long times. even moreso when it's not "my ancestor was a slave of your ancestor" but "I was your slave, 7000 years ago and I'm still ticked"
2) #1 does not preclude them from being manipulative back-stabbers and aid accross the lines of arbitrary hatred for a greater personal benefit 3) He was tossing a rock without enough mana 4) As long as humans think they are just eves, they are still similar enough not to be slaughtered. Humanity is very good at banding together against things that are different from them, and spending an entire downcycle watching humans come up with reasons to slaughter each other will result in a fair bit of secrecy. |
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Apr 9 2006, 02:24 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: 19-May 05 Member No.: 7,404 |
This is a great reference compiled by Ancient History.
http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Shadowru...o_Earthdawn.htm |
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Apr 9 2006, 03:18 AM
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#4
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
It doesn't say much about who was slave to whom. Was any particular immortal elf enslaved to any particular dragon?
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Apr 9 2006, 04:59 AM
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#5
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Don't listen to the Herald of Verjigorm. He's the enemy! It says so right in his name! They are lies ! All lies! It's all just part of the IE cabal's conspiracy to discredit dragons so that they don't join forces with the Drop Bears!
Damn you Herald! Daaaaaaaammmmnnnn yoooooooooouuuuuuuuu!!!!!! :spin: |
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Apr 9 2006, 02:03 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
There was some unpleasentness in the past. The IEs were created to serve the GDs, rebelled, and a couple GDs and IEs on each side were killed.
Lofwyr was keeping an eye on the IEs, Hestaby was defending her own interests. Of course, that's rather simplified because it leaves out all the maneuverings, bitching, sub-plots, and second- and third-level reasonings.
Waaay back in the day, certain troublesome spirits were imprisoned - case in point, the Spider totem (or at least a part of it) was kept in cold storage at Uluru. Keeping that in mind, somebody thought it was a pretty good idea to throw that mother into orbit. Eventually the orbit degraded, Harlequin & co. tried to push it back into space...and it exploded above Tunguska in 1908.
Can't really speak for them on this one, but generally speaking if you announce to a large group of people that you are immortal, they'll try and prove you wrong by killing you. Plus, it makes it easier to manipulate things from the shadows.
Indeedy-do. |
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Apr 9 2006, 02:38 PM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Not made explicitly clear, but best bets all around says Lofwyr had Alachia (and possible Ehran and Harlequin) under his talons. |
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Apr 10 2006, 01:29 AM
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#8
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
I must admit I always suspected most of them being linked with Alamaise, due to the stuff mentioned in Bloodwood's history.
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Apr 10 2006, 03:03 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 26-February 06 Member No.: 8,309 |
The Earthdawn Dragons book implies a familial relationship.
Sounds vaguely Tir-ish to me, eh? The whole rebellion would also explain the whole Dragonwide ban on dragonspawn that "the Outcast" violated. But until the rebellion a whole lot of dragons had spawn running around, so they could be related to just about anyone really. |
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Apr 10 2006, 04:15 AM
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#10
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
There is a slight difference between Dragonkin and immortals. Dragonkin were longer lives than others of their metatypes but were mortal. The original Immortal Elves were probably dragonkin elves who were subjected to lost magic rituals.
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Apr 10 2006, 11:34 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
Okay, more questions (will they ever end?)
Mystery no. 5: What reason would Harlequin or Ehran have for slaying Dunkelzahn? I know either one of them did it, but in the short story thay asked each other if they had done it. And, furthermore, if they didn't do it, and it was none of the other immortal elves, then who did? Mystery no. 6: It's obvious that Lofwyr's motive for his action is to gain power, but to me Dunkie was kinda of a hippie, wanting to make the world a better place, or was this just skillful pr? So the question is, do the dragons or immortal elves have some special motives beyond power? As an example I'd like to give Hualpa, whose actions to me seem also sincere, as the takeover of Amazonia had in my opinion maybe the greatest single effect to the world, ahter awakening of course, since without the revival of the rainforests all would've gone to hell. But I'm not naive enough to believe that he/she didn't also crave for power. But still. |
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Apr 10 2006, 11:42 AM
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#12
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
5
[ Spoiler ] 6 Dunk believed that dragons should rule the world, and firmly believed in a Lords responsibility to improve that which he was Lord over. |
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Apr 10 2006, 01:42 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 142 Joined: 29-March 06 From: Quebec, Canada Member No.: 8,415 |
Sort of like the enlighted monarch/dictator concept of our world's past...
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Apr 10 2006, 02:22 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
6. That, and he wanted to covertly prepare metahumanity for the Scourge, an event that lasts for several hundred years around the peak of the mana cycle when the Horrors (spirits who feed on pain, suffering, and destruction) swarm the planet and destroy virtually everything in their path.
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Apr 10 2006, 08:21 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784 |
Also remember that Dunkie wanted to reveal the whole ED/Horrors/Magic Cycle/IE ball of wax, and had already revealed alot on TV. This is something that the other Dragons/IEs thought was a Bad Idea and they were already considering knocking him off before he revealed too much.
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Apr 10 2006, 09:40 PM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
[ Spoiler ] Dang, I'm starting to have a hankering to play Earthdawn again, after reading all this. |
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Apr 11 2006, 10:50 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
^Ahh, thank you, some things make that much more sense now.
Mystery no. 7: The Atlantean Foundation. Now it seems pretty obvious that immortal elves run this organization, and it's also pretty clear that everyone's keen to find ancient artifacts and what not, but are these guys looking for something big, something specific, like the Atlantis? Or did such a thing ever exist? Mystery no. 8: Mars. Dunkie left the fotos in his will, are these structures made in some connection to the 4th world? Or is Dunkie's interest purely and understandably curious, like it probably is to every being on the planet, extraterrestrial life that is. Mystery no. 9: The Tir-conspiracy. I know certain things in the Tirs' culture, such as the Ways, elven court and so on, bear resemblance to the things in ED, but are the locations of the Tirs' in some connection to the previous age of magic? Or did they just randomly choose where to found these nations? |
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Apr 11 2006, 11:01 AM
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#18
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
9 Sorry for skipping 8 and 7 but I know some of this one. The elves first choice for a location would have been the old site of Wyrmwood(Bloodwood after the scourge). However last time Halleys comet came over it got slightly irradiated.
Chernobyl is russian for wormwood, and Barsaive is the southern Ukraine. The reactor is I think fairly close to the location of the Old forest heart. I do wonder who fiddled that little trick. |
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Apr 11 2006, 11:44 AM
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#19
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Who fumbled the trick? That's easy - Soviet workers who were fuckin' round with what they shoulden't have fucked with in ways they shoulden't have fucked.
Not every huge disaster needs be Horror or Immortal-Elf or Dragon-related. Some things, like WWII and Chernobyl, can be just a pure coincidence, no? And that Wormwood thing is a bad translation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_accident Besides, that story is scary and creepy enough without bringing the supernatural into it. But then, you can also adapt it for your Sixth World. What happened in the Alienation Zone during the Awakening? Well, the answer is.... Nobody knows. Even if the USSR didn't collapse in '91 like it did IRL, they were hurting bad, and busy worrying about things like Siberia spontaniously deciding it wanted to be Awakened, and shedding the hammer and sickle. With all that going on, they weren't watching the Alienation zone... And that place is a Bad Thing waiting to happen. Who knows what could be inside the Zone, soaking in the one-two punch of radioactivity and mana? Well, for starters there's a whole bunch of horses and wild animals they released back into the zone, a few stubborn holdouts (though these are probably dead by 2011, let alone 2050, 2060 and 2070. Also, of course... The Soviets left the bodies of the emergency workers who died on-site, inside the sarcophagus. Master Shedim, anyone? Not to mention that place is probably a toxic spirit playground. |
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Apr 11 2006, 11:57 AM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Yes, Atlantis existed. Supposedly, that's what the AF is looking for, but in reality I think they're going for the grab-bag of Ancient Magical Treasures™ Hecate is said to run the AF.
Unknown. Insufficient data.
Interesting hypothetical question; Tir na nOg may owe its existence the the Northern Isles or the Western Kingdoms of Earthdawn, while the best bet for Tir Tairngire is that some IEs were actually kept there as a sort of prison or as survivors from Mu (which explains the high expression rates for elves in the Pacific North West). |
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Apr 11 2006, 11:59 AM
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#21
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
For Mystery #8, my completely not-AH opinion says that Big D was curious too, and he wanted to know what was out there.
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 Apr 11 2006, 12:40 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 12-August 05 From: Helsinki Member No.: 7,552 |
Yei thank you guys, a lot. Still, some questions left.
Mystery no. 10: Darke. Yes, I've read Threats, but who is this guy really? An immortal? Servant of the Horrors? What was his connection with Aztechnology really? Mystery no. 11: Oscuro. I see this name popping up from time to time, but really haven't found out much about him. Is there anything mystical about this dude? Somehow I've got the feeling that he's connected to the azzies too, but have no idea how. Also, I've somehow got the feeling that he's also got something to do with the Horrors, true or not? Mystery no. 12: The Horrors. If the Aztlaners are that keen on the Horrors like it seems, are there some immortals, elves or dragons, running the game from the top of the pyramid? Or how is it that a half-century old corp can even know about the Horrors? IF there is some being telling them about the Horrors and guiding them towards that direction, is this the same "dude" that has taught the blood magic? I remember reading somewhere that Tzitzimine was a concept in the ancient Aztec culture that could refer to the Horrors. If this is so, does the newly "revived" Aztec culture have some sort of base from the 4th world? And please tell me if I'm getting too greedy about the info :) And great thanks again for the info you've shared so far. |
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Apr 11 2006, 12:46 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
10) A man who make a pact with something much meaner than himself.
11) See #10 12) Mostly they just learned the joys of blood magic and were told (by Darke or others) "this is even better than blood spirits." |
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Apr 11 2006, 12:53 PM
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#24
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Aztechnology: Ignorantly charging full-steam ahead where no magician, mortal or otherwise, should tread.
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