 Material Links ... Gone?, No more need for the bucket of bleach? |
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 Apr 12 2006, 01:46 PM
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#1
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Mr. Johnson  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314  |
Is it just me, or is there no mention of material links in the BBB? Once upon a time, one could track or ritual-zap someone if you had their blood or fingernail clippings (or an old sweater or something), but now it seems you need to have something magically linked to them, such as a spell, spirit, focus, etc.
Was this taken out? (Geez, I hope so. Then maybe we can start banishing spellcasting through astrally solid objects ...) |
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Apr 12 2006, 04:55 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
wait for the street magic book. they probably just had a space limitation, thus putting it in the next magic supplement.
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Apr 12 2006, 05:11 PM
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#3
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
The material link is central and necessary for the setting to work. I house rule it in the meantime.
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Apr 12 2006, 05:50 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
House ruling is of course your prerogative, but we're doing okay without material links. The ritual casting rules in the SR4 RAW haven't given us any problems yet. Even so, can of spray bleach isn't a bad thing to keep around for a few reasons. |
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Apr 12 2006, 06:44 PM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Y'all lost me somewhere on how being covered in bleach somehow makes my favorite teddy bear *not* a material link. You might have just fried any usable DNA off it, sure, and it's now a really cute shade of off-white, but I think the link was supposed to represent something slightly more ethereal...
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Apr 12 2006, 06:46 PM
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#6
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
House rules aside, how so? |
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Apr 12 2006, 06:59 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Being able to target a spell or track someone down by having an object that's important to them in-hand has always been a part of the game. It may not be "central to the setting" but it's always been a fairly noticeable feature.
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Apr 12 2006, 07:31 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
The bleach was (I presume) to sterilize the area after you've been bleeding all over it.
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Apr 12 2006, 07:43 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Isn't there still a "sterilize" spell?
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Apr 12 2006, 07:51 PM
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#10
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I wasn't aware most runners were concerned with the sterility of an area they'd been shot in.
Seriously... if all it takes to ruin a material link is dousing it in bleach, I think you're approaching them from the wrong angle. I'd always figured the Sterilize spell did some astral cleanup as well as physical... |
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Apr 12 2006, 07:56 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
No Sterilize in the new edition. Not yet.
And not everyone is going to have that spell available. Samurai didn't care to get astrally ganked in their sleep either just because they made the mistake of leaking bodily fluids during a gun battle. :) |
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Apr 12 2006, 09:22 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316 |
the ritual sorcery rules were completely changed making it a virtually useless skill for most mages.
Material links without extra metamagic abilities were basically dna and lIRC they lasted essense hours aftrer leaving the body. A can of bleach or some other thing helped shorten the time but also helped eliminate the fingerprints and such. |
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Apr 13 2006, 02:42 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 753 Joined: 31-October 03 Member No.: 5,780 |
It's not virtually useless, but it is very limited compared to the old method (which I read once I found a MiTS book).
A lot of those elements you could bring back until the book though from what I saw, that, or a little trial and error can find other uses with it. At the least, you can use it to make sure some spells are high powered in successes for use later if you can sustain them that long. |
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Apr 13 2006, 04:53 AM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
The bleach destorys the material link in more of less that same way as, say, burning if does. Note that bleaching your favorite teddy bear, or whatever, still leaves it at a material link, but the bleach works fine on skin, blood, hair, etc.
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Apr 13 2006, 09:25 AM
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#15
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I believe that using the fav teddy bear in 3rd edition was only possible with the symbolic linking metamagic. In 2d edition, it would work just fine. Move on to 3rd, and only body parts (hair and such) work
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Apr 13 2006, 09:40 AM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
So what does the tooth fairy do with all those teeth?
Run seed: So why does everyone at SK believe in the tooth fairy? Because, when they were children, they put their fallen teeth under thier pillows, and the next morning found them replaced by shiny new shares of SK stock, that's why. But it's not just the great stock options that make SK citizens so loyal... Somewhere, deep in the bowels of the dragon's lair, is a large pile of teeth, inside a ritual circle. Or at least, there used to be; until someone stole them. Now, the very foundation of the dragon's mighty emipire is at risk and he will pay just about anything to get all his teeth back. |
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Apr 13 2006, 12:12 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
That reminds me a bit of the plot of Hogfather by Terry Pratchett.
Although that was using them in order to kill the Discworld equivalent of Santa Claus |
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Apr 13 2006, 12:47 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Indeed, that is where the idea started
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Apr 13 2006, 12:52 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 671 Joined: 9-March 06 Member No.: 8,353 |
Err, anybody who can break into a ritual circle protected by Lofwyr is a mite beyond playable character level... This would have to be in a pretty advanced campaign, and I don't see Lofwyr trusting this info to runners. |
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Apr 13 2006, 01:58 PM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
My current mage didn't pick it up for the following reasons: 1) The hacker can find most people a lot quicker than ritual sorcery could. 2) I can chain-summon spirits with the Search power if the hacker can't find someone. 3) Ritual magic has extremely limited field use, and since most shadowrunners die during hostile engagements the Spellcasting skill was of greater use to me. 4) I'm hermetic and the other caster in the group is shamanic. We can never participate in the same ritual casting, so it isn't very useful unless NPCs are brought in. 5) If I wanted to kill someone remotely, I'd load up an attack spell into a spirit of Man and watch the assassination from astral space. Then I'd scrub my signature away while I'm there (which you can't do ritually). 6) It was cheaper to pick up Spellcasting and Counterspelling, two skills I (intended to) use a whole lot, than to pick up the Sorcery skill group. Also I wanted my Spellcasting to start higher than a 4 and be able to specialize it early on. |
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Apr 13 2006, 04:23 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
No material links?!
Ahem. Sod that! I must have missed that. It better be in street magic! |
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Apr 13 2006, 04:34 PM
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#22
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...from the mundane perspective, having no material link is a blessing. Magic is already too harsh on us.
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Apr 13 2006, 05:29 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Agreed, KK.
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Apr 13 2006, 05:57 PM
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#24
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Now that I think about it, I'm glad that there's no longer a material link. It seemed trivial and un-fun to have to clean up every fragging scrap of evidence of your existence at the site of a run. The new rules are pretty clear about the anonymity of shadowrunners: go ahead and leave DNA, there's no data to match it to, anyway (that's why Public Awareness is tracked). The Crash 2.0 erased a lot of data. It makes little sense for a team to be able to leave fingerprints in relative safety but can be tracked through astral space because they dropped their hat or left some tissue.
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Apr 13 2006, 06:07 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I don't know about "makes little sense." It certainly makes it easier on the runners, but the crash wouldn't have had an effect on the way astral signatures work.
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