 Ghostwalker's Stats, Just for fun... |
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 Apr 13 2006, 05:33 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,887  |
Anyone care to take a shot at what Ghostwalker's stats would be in 4th Edition?
Also how many spirits do you think he'd have under his direct control/allied with him? Assuming that his new lair is in the old NORAD base, what defenses/protection would you think would be around there? For extra credit, take a shot at Nicholas Whitebird's stats. No right/wrong answers here just opinions. Just try to be "realistic". (Meaning don't worry about the power level of the campaign and such). |
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Apr 13 2006, 06:24 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I think about 3 in all attributes, perhaps more for charisma and willpower, and no ghosts under control/allied. Summoning 1 or so.
Of course i refer to the time of the great ghost dance :D. |
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Apr 13 2006, 09:05 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 10-January 06 From: Regina Member No.: 8,145 |
Take the "base" Western Dragon stats, and apply the "Great Dragon" modifiers to them.
In the end: if you have to start rolling dice for a Dragon the players are dead. PS One of my favourite lines from the Survival of the Fittest campaign, this is right in the adventure (I'm paraphrasing a litte 'cuz I don't have the book with me): "... roll some dice just for fun and tell the players they are dead. Maybe their next characters will be smarter." |
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Apr 13 2006, 09:17 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
If I remember from the first Harlequin module, there was a passage that went something like "Screw the rules. Assume that Harley and Ehran are capable of doing pretty much anything they want."
Behold the power of Plot. |
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Apr 13 2006, 09:21 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 21-February 06 From: Lenexa, Kansas (Yes Kansas, we ain't all hicks y'all.) Member No.: 8,291 |
About the spirits under his control, that depends. Can the spirits spend Edge to resist the binding? Cause if so, he's screwed! :grinbig:
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Apr 13 2006, 10:10 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 27-February 06 Member No.: 8,316 |
not with a magic of 12
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Apr 14 2006, 12:59 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Eh. Ghostwalker can be killed. Just summon a Force 12 Spirit of Man with Innate spell (Manabolt), and order it to cast it at Force 24 vs. Ghostwalker. Ghostwalker then dies horribly. ;)
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Apr 14 2006, 01:08 AM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 8-March 06 Member No.: 8,344 |
But Ghostwalker can counter by summoning a Force 24 Spirit of Man with Innate Spell (Manabolt) and cast it on you at Force 48 :D
Edit: Oh wait, what happens when the Force 24 Spirit of Man rolls Edge to resist and dumps 50~P at Ghostwalker :0 |
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Apr 14 2006, 02:18 AM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
but GW has Magic of at least 62
in DotSW it suggests he has 50 initiate grades |
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Apr 14 2006, 02:20 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 671 Joined: 9-March 06 Member No.: 8,353 |
or pings the spell with counterspelling dice, one or the other... I have never understood the point of statting great dragons, if a GM has let a player get to a power level where they could be a threat to a great, the GM has buggered up already. Remember that dragons are not just tough, they are smart. No, real smart. Smarter than that even. If a GM allows a dragon to be dumb enough to fall for any player set trap then he has already done it wrong. That being said, for lovers of numbers, first thing to say is that his hide pings naval scale assault lasers, so some cross-translation of the shadowrun 3rd ed naval-scale vehicle rules would need doing. Have ghostwalker count as about an armored battleship? His claws do, say, 12 Naval scale damage, and he can tail whip for 9 naval damge (stun).
Ghostwalker uses one of his 50-odd edge points for 50 extra dice to resist? |
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Apr 14 2006, 02:22 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
So he summons a force 124 spirit and has it hit with a force 248 mana bolt. Although, he'd probably be better off using sleep, since uncoscious uppity bastards are much more fun later than dead ones. :D
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Apr 14 2006, 02:23 AM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Unless you're running a ultra high powered game, your players like it, and everyone is having fun. :) |
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Apr 14 2006, 02:41 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 671 Joined: 9-March 06 Member No.: 8,353 |
Fair enough, but even at ultra-high powered level, unless they players themselves are playing dragons they sould not have a hope of defeating Ghostwalker, as his max abilities are not limited in the same way that player ones are. I feel that while you could say, for example, yes Ghostwalker has only 50 body, so drop enough nukes on him, and he will die, you still have to figure out why a being with more base intuitiuon than the most munchined out phys ad's stealth pool would fail to notice an ambush being laid for it. If you get a being like Ghostwalker into a direct fight with PC's tricked out to be a threat to it, it is still not Ghostwalker that you have defeated, as Ghostwalker would have been smart enough to retreat and regroup. Sure players could with apllicaiton of effort at some point take out a great dragon, but it would not be Ghostwalker that they had defeated if the GM let it happen. It's like In Nomine angels force-killing Lucifer, or Vampire characters killing Caine. If they were defeated by playable characters they were not statted smart enough. If they were not statted smart enough why call them Ghostwalker/Lucifer/Caine? It can be fun to go aroung saying "my Call of Cthulu character kicked Hastur's ass" but everybody else would be as impressed as if you got all the liscences on GT4 by using an action replay. |
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Apr 14 2006, 03:15 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I never said you or I should let them get into a fight with a great dragon (let alone GW). I just said that if someone is running that kind of game and everyone is having fun, all is right with their world.
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Apr 14 2006, 05:24 AM
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#15
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Personally I hate the way they stat the great dragons in SR4. Not so much that they do, but that they make them weak.
As far as the attributes, I'm cool with the stats there. I'd raise the skills by about 5, because hell, if you're going to already go and break the rules (skill cap, they have Sorc (G) - 10), might as well go all the way. Since Ghostwalker is supposed to be the greatest summoner of this age (6th and 4th actually) his conjuring (G) should be 3 or so points above that. Go ahead and use a nice high edge of say 9 (since , once again, they already broke the rules on caps, so do it 3rd ed wayand let him go to 1.5 max attribute). Then go ahead and apply what they said about guys like Harlequin back in 2nd edition. Should be an initiate of the high double digits. So yeah, he's a (we'll be nice and say) 40th grade initiate. And since you can't have a higher intit. grade than your magic rating , he'd have over magic 40. That makes him a lot more scary. |
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Apr 14 2006, 07:34 AM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Great Dragon's stats have always been really weak for their fluff. Just look at the threads on how to gib a Great Dragon by using an Assault Rifle loaded with APDS back in SR3.
Just assume that either A. They have really good PR people, or B. most of their reputation is because of their obsessive planning. You run into a GD who just woke up, and has no knowledge of modern technology, or what metahumans are capable of this time around, and you could gib him. |
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Apr 14 2006, 11:27 AM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
The biggest problem with summoning a force 124 spirit is that if you have it cast stun bolt at force 2 its going to kill the chunkiest meta human possible
Take willpower 10, spell defence 7 and 20 initiate grades, no cyber max magic. That’s 43 dice. So the spirit has 205 more dice, assuming below average roll (or buying sucseses at one per 4 dice) 53 boxes of stun damage. This char has 13 boxes of stun track and with a body of 12 and 6 cyber limbs (the spell defence was coming from a different character) 20 boxes of physical. So he is bleeding from his ears with 21 boxes of over flow damage. Consider ghost walker casting stun bolt at you, without overcasting. Dragon magic 62, spell casting 6 (his one skill at 7 would be conjuring) dice pool 68 The target. A dwarf full Borg being protected buy the chunkiest mage on the block Willpower 7, spell defence 33 (skill 6 essence 6 21 between initiate grade and spell defence focus) dice pool 40 The dragon has a 28 dice advantage. Using success purchasing rates (he would do better if we rolled) that gives 7 net successes so without overcasting the damage is 69 stun. With 12 stun track and 20 physical track that is over kill buy a whopping 37 points of damage into overflow. If you survive having a spell cast at you buy a great dragon its because he wanted you to That said he could be killed buy PCs, hear is how. Obtain anty ship missiles, you’ll need about 30, and the aircraft to carry them and fire them all in one initiative pass. When the great dragon is at a public appearance you fire all the missiles simultaneously from a range that will ensure speedy delivery (no moor than 2 KM). he wont have time to escape. of cause I cant see any PCs getting there hands on that kind of ordinance. Edward |
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Apr 14 2006, 02:38 PM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Total hits (not net hits) rolled is limited by force. If you cast a force 2 spell at someone, you can at most get 2 hits on your test, even with infinite dice. Then your target needs only 2 hits to negate the spell entirely.
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Apr 14 2006, 04:46 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 24-October 05 Member No.: 7,887 |
This was an exercise for fun, but you're all assuming a straight up fight.
In metahuman form GW is very killable. He has physical stats akin to normal metahumans. Since it is plausible for PC's to be at a point to attack Ghostwalker when he is this vulnerable, you need stats for his dragon form in case he survives to retaliate. Now I'm not saying that Ghostwalker runs around in metahuman form all the time.....but it's plausible that there might be a campaign based on a run to assassinate Ghostwalker while he's in metahuman form. Bypassing his henchmen and security would be where the shadowrunners come in. |
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Apr 14 2006, 05:51 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Given his high magic rating and access to nearly infinite magical resources and karma, it's not unreasonable to assume that he has quickened enhance attribute spells covering all his attributes, as well as combat sense, armor, pretty much anything you could think of. Also, he probably uses his divining metamagic to foresee any threats long before they happen. |
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Apr 14 2006, 05:53 PM
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Divination is a bitch, even for great dragons.
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Apr 15 2006, 03:14 AM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Dragons don't like to use divination. It makes things boring. ;)
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Apr 15 2006, 03:38 AM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Just find the guy who killed Ghostwalker's brother. He'll know how to take down a GD.
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Apr 15 2006, 06:04 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,283 Joined: 17-May 05 Member No.: 7,398 |
Dunkie suicided to power the Dragon Heart. Unless you manage to convince GW that there's something out there worth killing himself to prevent, it probably isn't going to happen.
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Apr 15 2006, 06:47 AM
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#25
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
You ruined the joke. :P
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