 Watchers have no value., I mean almost completely useless. |
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 Apr 16 2006, 10:54 AM
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#26
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587  |
Actually I’m liking Pete.
So long as bob doesn’t get lost (I would say no roll required to stay /inside/ Bob) it works. Of cause you haven’t been very efficient. Instead of letting Pete go have bob give you a telepathic message and stay in Bob. Edward |
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Apr 16 2006, 02:04 PM
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#27
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
thats realy the big question when using watchers to shadow people. outside of wards and the person projecting into the metaplanes, what can confuse a watcher? seems to me that when they have first found their target, they will stay on him no matter what...
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Apr 16 2006, 02:37 PM
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#28
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
As soon as the target rolls Intuition + Shadowing (Tail Evasion). ;)
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Apr 16 2006, 04:20 PM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 1-July 05 Member No.: 7,477 |
Assuming they can see astrally at all. Otherwise, no. |
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Apr 16 2006, 04:47 PM
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#30
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Target Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: 8-January 06 Member No.: 8,140 |
And I don't think most people who can astrally sense will walk around doing it all the time, because it is a big pain in the ass and leaves you vulnerable in the real world.
But as is stated, if you think they are underpowered, change them. Several of us don't believe they are, so we won't. |
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Apr 16 2006, 04:52 PM
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#31
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
It doesn't matter at all whether they can see astrally or not, RAW. Even if trying to claim absolute visibility on the astral for the watcher (which isn't given), disappearing into a crowd does it all the time. |
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Apr 16 2006, 04:53 PM
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#32
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
They'll have to have a reason to roll it though. Some folks will because they're paranoid.
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Apr 16 2006, 04:59 PM
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#33
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Yeah - the question is whether you are paranoid enough.
Ah, the memories... of GMs letting an entire team being shadowed without asking for perception tests at all - teaches you to roll perception and stealth at random to kill their plot device. :twirl: |
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Apr 16 2006, 05:02 PM
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#34
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Perception tets are reactive, not proactive. A GM not asking for them is either rolling them himself, cheating, or knows something you don't that would prevent perception tests.
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Apr 16 2006, 05:35 PM
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#35
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
It was plain cheating. ;)
There aren't many things that 'prevent perception tests', too... and, interesting enough, there's nothing preventing proactive perception tests. |
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Apr 16 2006, 05:39 PM
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#36
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
An astral shadower with a non astrally perceiving target prevents it, as does being above the clouds and following using scanners or similar means of tracking someone without being within ear or eye shot of them. You can't prevent them from saying "I look around" and making their roll, but you can make it so that their roll can't possibly detect the person following them.
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Apr 16 2006, 06:05 PM
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#37
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
There are some tricks indeed, but, unfortunatly, the GM didn't even think about it. ;)
Sure. And if the team both features a magician and an electronic warfare specialist, too, in an urban setting, after a while, it's just cheating - which I say as GM. ;) That such cheating is usually used to railroad players doesn't make it better. |
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Apr 16 2006, 06:08 PM
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#38
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Cheating to railroad is actually worse. I don't mind if a GM cheats every now and then to make things more exciting or less anti-climactic, but doing it to ensure that the plotline gets fulfilled just makes my characters start doing crazy shit to see how much havoc I can wreak while trying to escape the shackles of Fate. :)
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Apr 17 2006, 05:51 AM
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#39
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
by the way, running the maths on thhe 75 min scenario
in that time frame the watcher has less than 18 percent chance of NOT rolling a critical glitch and permafailing in the search now by the 120 minute mark (by which, ignoring the gritical glitch rule, you should be 90% assured of success) you have a 7.5% chance of not having already gotten a critical glitch once you factor that rule in, your watcher has about a 11-14% chance of succeeding in a search at all now assuming 12% chance of success a magic 5 char can sic 5 of these guys on a target and have a 48% chance of finding it... not too bad or I use a force 4 air or man spirit get my answer 99% sure within 30 mins, and don't get ridiculous glitch odds yeah watchers are really good searchers :please: :please: :please: |
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Apr 17 2006, 05:56 AM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
They're not supposed to be really good, they're supposed to be really easy.
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Apr 17 2006, 05:58 AM
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#41
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
they were always good for a few things, like looking for things
now they suck at EVERYTHING |
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Apr 17 2006, 12:45 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
...So one potential answer is to just rule that Watcher spirits are immune to critical glitches on searches, right? Maybe their stupidity works both ways - they're too stupid to fail given enough time? :-P
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Apr 17 2006, 12:51 PM
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#43
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Not really.
Limiting their Extended Tests only by their lifetime makes them fairly useful, while not as good as real spirits. Properly used watcher were so powerful that one had to start task-lawyering to keep tem in check. |
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Apr 17 2006, 04:29 PM
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#44
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
not any more rotbart
Remember the point,onecrit glitch and the extended test ends and they have 2 dice for a search test and ZERO dice for perception tests watchers cant watch drek |
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Apr 17 2006, 05:26 PM
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#45
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That's very fine with me. Watchers were annoyingly powerful finding people - heck, they were better than ritual tracking.
Astral Perception uses the Assensing skill, too, so they have two dice for their only form of perception. |
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Apr 17 2006, 05:42 PM
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#46
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
actually noticing something, whether or not you are in the astral, is Intuition + perception. examining details about an aura or astral form is Intuition + Assensing
nowhere in the book, that I have found, does it give assensing as the astral replacement for perception. So Watchers still get 0 dice although anything that is OBVIOUS they can try to assense with 2 dice |
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Apr 17 2006, 06:02 PM
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#47
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Check the chapter about astral perception again:
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Apr 17 2006, 07:38 PM
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#48
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Since watchers always exist on the astral (and are thus always Assensing), there'd be no reason for them to have the physical Perception skill that we meatbags do. It's a good point that if a watcher tries to sense something that has no astral presence, it's going to have a heck of a hard time. This is due to one or both of the following reasons: 1) When using astral perception, the perceiver is at -2 to attempt any physical task. That outright screws watchers unless they're getting bonus dice from somewhere. Technically watchers simply can't perform any physical task (as they're not physical beings), but if you consider eyeballing a mundane street sign to be a "physical" task then that settles that. 2) If a watcher were to attempt to default to physical Perception (or any other skill they don't possess) then they'll be at -1 of their relevant Attribute. Obviously all of their Attributes are 1's, so they'll have a dice pool of zero. Again, unless they're getting bonuses from somewhere, they're autofailing. |
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Apr 18 2006, 04:21 AM
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#49
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
only applies to astral forms being looked at that means dual natured critters/runners/people and spirits people who are not astrally active are not covered on that page but even if they got to use assensing for tghe auras of hiding people 19.4% chance of a critical glitch every roll :eek: |
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Apr 18 2006, 06:57 AM
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#50
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Where does it say that?
That would be the 'observe in detail' part.
Which gives Watchers the same amount of perception as Joe Average (Intuition 3, Perception 0). |
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