Armor in 4th. - Dumpshock Forums

Armor in 4th., Can you layer?

30+coyote View Member Profile	Apr 16 2006, 10:30 PM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 28-February 06 Member No.: 8,317	I know realistically you can layer armor, a vest with an armored coat for example, but how does that work in sr4?

jklst14 View Member Profile	Apr 16 2006, 10:36 PM Post #2
CosaNostra Deliverator Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 346 Joined: 29-January 05 From: Philadelphia, PA Member No.: 7,034	When you layer armor in 4th edition, you use whichever armor value is higher. So a character in an armored jacket and armored clothes has ballistic/impact of 8/6, just like someone who only has an armored jacket. -JKL

30+coyote View Member Profile	Apr 16 2006, 10:54 PM Post #3
Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 28-February 06 Member No.: 8,317	So layering is pointless?

Konsaki View Member Profile	Apr 16 2006, 11:09 PM Post #4
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445	Unless you house rule something else...

30+coyote View Member Profile	Apr 16 2006, 11:44 PM Post #5
Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 28-February 06 Member No.: 8,317	No, it just seems illogical.

jklst14 View Member Profile	Apr 16 2006, 11:59 PM Post #6
CosaNostra Deliverator Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 346 Joined: 29-January 05 From: Philadelphia, PA Member No.: 7,034	I like the idea of being able to take off an armored jacket but still have the security of armored clothing underneath. Otherwise, layering is not terribly useful. However, if you like buying armor modifications, layering armor can help you save some money. For instance: Joe Samuari has a chameleon suit, a camo suit and an armored vest. He goes and spends a lot of money to upgrade all three of them to level 6 thermal dampening. Jane Samuari has the same three armor outfits as Joe. Rather than upgrade all three with thermal dampening, Jane buys a single set of armor clothing underwear. She upgrades that one set with level 6 thermal dampening and then layers it with whatever outer armor she feels like using. JKL

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Apr 17 2006, 12:32 AM Post #7
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	hmm, thats a interesting take on layering...

Glyph View Member Profile	Apr 17 2006, 01:06 AM Post #8
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449	Also remember that things like helmets and shields add directly to your armor rating, although they also count when figuring out encumbrance penalties.

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Apr 17 2006, 01:31 AM Post #9
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	hmm. hard to tell if thats intended, or just a bad case of wording. still, it makes somewhat sense...

Aku

Apr 17 2006, 02:38 AM

Post #10

Running, running, running

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,220
Joined: 18-October 04
From: North Carolina
Member No.: 6,769

QUOTE (jklst14)

I like the idea of being able to take off an armored jacket but still have the security of armored clothing underneath. Otherwise, layering is not terribly useful.

However, if you like buying armor modifications, layering armor can help you save some money.

For instance:

Joe Samuari has a chameleon suit, a camo suit and an armored vest. He goes and spends a lot of money to upgrade all three of them to level 6 thermal dampening.

Jane Samuari has the same three armor outfits as Joe. Rather than upgrade all three with thermal dampening, Jane buys a single set of armor clothing underwear. She upgrades that one set with level 6 thermal dampening and then layers it with whatever outer armor she feels like using.

JKL

and as GM, i would rule that said armor for jane is only effective in hiding when she has the hots for joe.

GrinderTheTroll

Apr 17 2006, 04:51 AM

Post #11

Shooting Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 9-July 04
From: Modesto, CA
Member No.: 6,465

QUOTE (30+coyote)

No, it just seems illogical.

Problem with prior versions was there where a lot of rules (movement, pool restictions, layerd armor effects) that it was a pain.

As stated early in SR4, the goal is not to mimic reality 100% and the margin of error here is minimal. Simple helps a lot more than it hurts IMO.

Ophis View Member Profile	Apr 17 2006, 09:18 AM Post #12
Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760	Armour layering was only ever in 3rd IRC 2nd didn't allow it... I just hope the do form fitting as a "helmet" typr set up, adding to you ratings rather than as an armour of its own (+2,+2 maybe for top level)

captainwhizz

Apr 17 2006, 01:49 PM

Post #13

Target

Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 10-April 06
From: Essex, England
Member No.: 8,449

QUOTE ( SR4 @ p149)

If a character is wearing more than one piece of armour at a time, only the highest value applies.

Pyrius

Apr 17 2006, 03:21 PM

Post #14

Target

Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 7-September 05
From: near Cologne
Member No.: 7,705

QUOTE

(SR4 p.149)
Too much armor, however, can slow a character down. If either of a character’s armor ratings exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1 modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof ) that his Body is exceeded. Note that this may affect Initiative as well. If a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together before comparing to Body.

Voran

Apr 21 2006, 09:19 AM

Post #15

Running Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,401
Joined: 23-February 04
From: Honolulu, HI
Member No.: 6,099

QUOTE (Pyrius)

QUOTE

(SR4 p.149)
Too much armor, however, can slow a character down. If either of a character’s armor ratings exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1 modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof ) that his Body is exceeded. Note that this may affect Initiative as well. If a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together before comparing to Body.

That part only applies to weight tho. The armor effect itself doesn't stack, the impact it has on your A/R does tho.

I miss form fitting body armor.

Oracle View Member Profile	Apr 21 2006, 09:31 AM Post #16
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624	The 'armor higher than body' rule unfortunately does not stop players from building TANK-TROLL monstrosities. On a convention a month ago I played a game with a player whose character was a Troll maxed on body, wearing full body armor, a helmet and a ballistic shield. Altogether he had a ballistic armor rating of I think 15-17 and rolled 30+ damage resistance dice. However he had only a reaction of 1 and no dodge skill. I don't think it is necessary to give further details...well possibly this one is interesting: Of course IT used a composite bow, and the player insisted he could use the bow in combination with the shield. :sarcasm:

Dissonance View Member Profile	Apr 21 2006, 09:35 AM Post #17
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 19-January 04 Member No.: 5,992	On the plus side? It looks like the kind of armor that Shadowrunners would wear in a running situation have higher armor ratings across the board.

CONAN9845 View Member Profile	Apr 21 2006, 10:56 AM Post #18
Target Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 30-May 02 From: South Jersey Member No.: 2,798	Even though I think that layering armor should have some sort of beneficial effects, I don't have a problem with the RAW. Also, I don't allow thermal dampening unless it is on all layers.

Aaron

Apr 21 2006, 12:30 PM

Post #19

Mr. Johnson

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,148
Joined: 27-February 06
From: UCAS
Member No.: 8,314

QUOTE (CONAN9845)

Also, I don't allow thermal dampening unless it is on all layers.

I bet you don't sleep with a sheet.

Shrike30

Apr 24 2006, 06:26 PM

Post #20

Runner

Group: Members
Posts: 2,556
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle
Member No.: 98

QUOTE (Voran)

I miss form fitting body armor.

I don't, really. The cheese that was "hey, here's 2 more points of ballistic armor that doesn't count towards layering in any way" was annoying. I'd much rather have my players wearing either full body armor, or figuring out some more interesting combinations (FFBA leggings and arm portions, put together with an armored, plated vest, usually got a 6/4 from me). As it was, it was a way for runners to squeeze in a couple more points of armor with no real disadvantage except for a few extra kilos.

James McMurray View Member Profile	Apr 24 2006, 06:31 PM Post #21
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	After it's introduction I never saw a runner without FFBA. Why not just increase the prices and armor ratings across the board and save some room on the character sheets?

Butterblume View Member Profile	Apr 24 2006, 08:28 PM Post #22
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081	I didn't use FFBA. But then, i still use regular ammo, so I might be crazy :wobble:.

James McMurray View Member Profile	Apr 24 2006, 08:57 PM Post #23
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	Yeah, you're definitely crazy. ;)

Voran

Apr 25 2006, 12:19 AM

Post #24

Running Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,401
Joined: 23-February 04
From: Honolulu, HI
Member No.: 6,099

QUOTE (Butterblume)

I didn't use FFBA. But then, i still use regular ammo, so I might be crazy :wobble:.

Regular ammo, you mean EX EX? What's crazy about that?

:wobble:

TBRMInsanity View Member Profile	Apr 25 2006, 01:30 PM Post #25
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494	Layering comes into effect when you play with degrading armor rules (ie bullets make armor less effective over time). Having multiple layers of armor will mean you can sustain more damage to your armor over time.

« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »