IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> I hate ______ character types, they really unbalance the game
I hate ______ character types
You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Total Votes: 90
Guests cannot vote 
fool
post Apr 17 2006, 05:36 PM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 27-February 06
Member No.: 8,316



I've noticed alot of different post claiming that this or that type of character unbalances the game too much and chould be limited. Discuss amongst yourselves, I', feeling veclempt
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stevebugge
post Apr 17 2006, 05:41 PM
Post #2


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,026
Joined: 23-November 05
From: Seattle (Really!)
Member No.: 7,996



I don't find that any character type is inherently game breaking. I have found that a determined player can find ways to make almost any character type a bit unbalanced. Bottom line is that game balance is a shared responsibility between GM's and players to ensure everyone has fun, so while just about any character type can be unbalanced in a particular setting, they don't have to be unbalanced.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dv84good
post Apr 17 2006, 05:48 PM
Post #3


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 97
Joined: 30-January 06
Member No.: 8,213



Dido!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LynGrey
post Apr 17 2006, 05:56 PM
Post #4


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 53
Joined: 19-February 05
From: Charlotte, NC
Member No.: 7,100



I'm an anti-drone rigger. I hate them, i hate any "stay at home" character type. It just erks me, alot. I just don't like the fact that this bozo is just controlling drones to do eveyrthing that he would do normally, and he doesn't give a flying Flip if the drones gets geeked, he's got 6 more, and it only cost him a bit of cred.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Thanee
post Apr 17 2006, 06:26 PM
Post #5


jacked in
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 8,915
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 463



You forgot the all of them! option. :D

Bye
Thanee
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nezumi
post Apr 17 2006, 06:31 PM
Post #6


Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,546
Joined: 24-October 03
From: DeeCee, U.S.
Member No.: 5,760



The problem is generally the character type in context. A mage on his own, or with a group of mages and adepts or in a money-heavy game is fine. A mage surrounded by sams in a karma rich game is insane. Similarly, a munchkin surrounded by roleplayers will give nothing but headaches, but a party of JUST munchkins is good, clean fun.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
James McMurray
post Apr 17 2006, 06:38 PM
Post #7


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,430
Joined: 10-January 05
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Member No.: 6,957



"Only a bit of cred" is relative to the amount of money you're making for runs. If you're getting 3-5k per run but losing 2-6 in drones you're in trouble.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azralon
post Apr 17 2006, 07:56 PM
Post #8


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,651
Joined: 23-September 05
From: Marietta, GA
Member No.: 7,773



Personally I still have trouble with hackers.

I fully recognize that some of it is unwarranted emotional baggage from the last 3 editions, but a portion of my cringing is valid.

Hackers, by nature, "interrupt" normal gameplay. Not as deeply as they used to, but ironically they interrupt more frequently.

Example: The non-hackers are sitting around having a conversation in a bar with a Johnson. While the dialogue is going on, the hacker is sitting in AR constantly poking at the J's comm, running data searches on the J's clothing manufacturer, providing a live tactical map of the bar to his teammates, monitoring the sensor blimp hovering over the bar, instructing his agents to keep looping Redirects, talking to his Matrix contacts about recent activity related to the pending run, blah blah blah.

The worst part of it is that every time the conversation brings up a new topic of interest, the dutiful hacker is going to immediately start running new searches on it. Data mining is the hacker's job and it's utterly invaluable; it's just potentially disruptive to the game session's natural flow.

It almost makes me long for the old method where the GM focuses his entire attention on the decker for a while, then goes back to the rest of the group. I know, I know, bite my tongue.

Or maybe it's just because I'm running for a particularly inquisitive nerd right now. :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Grinder
post Apr 17 2006, 07:58 PM
Post #9


Great, I'm a Dragon...
*********

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 6,699
Joined: 8-October 03
From: North Germany
Member No.: 5,698



Voted "hackers/technomancers", but I want to point out that I only dislike TMs. They're too weird and never loved the Otaku ;)

Mages can be a pain in the ass, too.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fool
post Apr 17 2006, 08:30 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 27-February 06
Member No.: 8,316



I actually voted for mages though it's what I like to play the best.
Hackers can be incredibly powerful in that they can strip you of identity, fuck up all your accounts, change your equipment dreckcetera dreckcetera.
Any mage is going to go down if confronted with an army of 6 drones (armed with mgls and ultrasound vision of course.)
Adepts with a skill of 9 can do any one thing better than anyone else can even imagine, and probably will sill have plenty of magic points left to be a bad ass.
I noticed that almost no one or no one picked the sammie/skill maester, all though they can be pushed to the point of being nearly invincible/ able to do everything.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
evilgenius
post Apr 17 2006, 08:36 PM
Post #11


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 28-March 06
From: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Member No.: 8,409



QUOTE (Azralon)
Personally I still have trouble with hackers.

I fully recognize that some of it is unwarranted emotional baggage from the last 3 editions, but a portion of my cringing is valid.

Hackers, by nature, "interrupt" normal gameplay. Not as deeply as they used to, but ironically they interrupt more frequently.

Example: The non-hackers are sitting around having a conversation in a bar with a Johnson. While the dialogue is going on, the hacker is sitting in AR constantly poking at the J's comm, running data searches on the J's clothing manufacturer, providing a live tactical map of the bar to his teammates, monitoring the sensor blimp hovering over the bar, instructing his agents to keep looping Redirects, talking to his Matrix contacts about recent activity related to the pending run, blah blah blah.

The worst part of it is that every time the conversation brings up a new topic of interest, the dutiful hacker is going to immediately start running new searches on it. Data mining is the hacker's job and it's utterly invaluable; it's just potentially disruptive to the game session's natural flow.

It almost makes me long for the old method where the GM focuses his entire attention on the decker for a while, then goes back to the rest of the group. I know, I know, bite my tongue.

Or maybe it's just because I'm running for a particularly inquisitive nerd right now. :)

My solution in SR, SR 2 and SR 3 was to have two discrete parties...

The players would make whatever characters they wanted EXCEPT deckers - that was forbidden. This would make up the running team.

The players would then make up a second team of ONLY deckers. This was the decking team.

So, let's say the party's gone to infiltrate the Renraku arcology... They approach the door, and need to see if the decker(s) have opened it. Everybody switches characters, we have a little matrix run (the deckers' meat bodies are all over the world, they're getting together only in the matrix for the job). The party sees if they can crack the system, open the doors necessary for the other party, and carry on.

Then, once mission's accomplished, switch characters back and continue play with the regular party.

Worked like a charm - it's cause of this I'm still hemming and hawing about SR 4 - I find AR useful, but not useful enough to warrant switching.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tattered~Seraphi...
post Apr 17 2006, 09:10 PM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 433
Joined: 28-March 06
Member No.: 8,412



I'd say that this applies to pretty much any game, whatever the system (apart for a few exceptions), it comes down to the roleplayers themselves and how they stat their characters. All types of character have their uses as well as their disadvantages, and a team that covers pretty much the whole spread does have its uses. It also comes down to what style of game the players and GM are after.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ophis
post Apr 17 2006, 09:45 PM
Post #13


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



Stay at home riggers, hate em hate em hate em!
Poeple scared of taking risks then whinging about drones getting smashed, didums shut up!
Sorry I appear to be ranting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
emo samurai
post Apr 17 2006, 09:50 PM
Post #14


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,589
Joined: 28-November 05
Member No.: 8,019



You could write notes while you speak to the rest of the players if your hacker likes to data mine in the middle of conversations. That way, you hacker can explain all the paydata to the other players himself.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shrike30
post Apr 17 2006, 09:52 PM
Post #15


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,556
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle
Member No.: 98



Any character can break a game. I have the hardest time as a GM figuring out reasonable ways to control mages (since only 1% of the population can interact with a big chunk of the game world the way that they do) but it's mostly a matter of figuring out what feels like a reasonable amount of astral protection to put on a site.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fool
post Apr 18 2006, 12:40 AM
Post #16


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 588
Joined: 27-February 06
Member No.: 8,316



this one percent thing is something my one of my group and I are disagreeing about.
Nowhere in the SR4 book that I could find last night did it say what percentage of the population is awakened, other than to say that there are more each generation... if you look at yotc that would explain why there are a greater proportion of awakened over time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Glyph
post Apr 18 2006, 03:37 AM
Post #17


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,116
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,449



None of the character types are inherently imbalancing. The GM's job is to let everyone know what kind of campaign he is running (epic, street level, etc.), and then approve the characters for the game. That should take care of most potential problems right there.

It's an open build system, where you can create characters of wildly varying effectiveness. But I think the fact that all of the character types are candidates for "unbalancing character type" shows that the game is actually pretty balanced. Although to be honest, I have a hard time picturing the last option (the skill monkey) being unbalanced. Maybe if it is someone playing in a campaign of combat munchkins, where they treat him like gold because he is the only one in the group who can negotiate with the Johnson, or drive a car, or perform first aid, or... :grinbig:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hyzmarca
post Apr 18 2006, 04:02 AM
Post #18


Midnight Toker
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 4-July 04
From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop
Member No.: 6,456



That alone is what potentially makes the skillmonkey unbalanced.

Imagine a party of combat munchkins getting paid :nuyen: 50 for a near-suicidal run because the Johnson talked them down, taking the public bus to their target (carrying all of their highly illegal gear and weapons in plain sight), getting shot several times in a stand-off with Lone Star when their bus ride inevitably turns into a hostage situation and then arriving at the extraterritorial building they were hired to hit with a bus full of hostages who havn't been to the restroom in hours and followed by two dozen squad cars only to find that the Corp security has been watching their exploits on the trid, laughing at them and taking bets over where they'll stop and that there is an entire team of special forces goons in milspec armor just waiting for them to get out of the bus and they can barely shoot straight due to wound penalities because no one knows how to patch up their bleeding holes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
James McMurray
post Apr 18 2006, 04:06 AM
Post #19


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,430
Joined: 10-January 05
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Member No.: 6,957



That doesn't make a skill monkey broken, it makes the characters without the skills to perform a shadowrun idiots (or at least a poor choice for any run that doesn't involve hijacking a bus and shooting it out with lone star).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Konsaki
post Apr 18 2006, 01:21 PM
Post #20


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,526
Joined: 9-April 06
From: McGuire AFB, NJ
Member No.: 8,445



+1 Karma for Hyzmarca

I found that the Troll Sam was the biggest detriment to my game due to the pure P damage soaking. I threw in some tough heavy armored goons and found the rest of the team hurting and the Sam with only 2S. Later on I figured out that a good GM (I'm not a good GM but I'm trying new things to get better) would have thrown in some S damage weapons or more tech checks to make the run harder without penalizing the rest of the team to absurdity.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Apr 18 2006, 01:30 PM
Post #21


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



@Konsaki In the fights themselves you could have tossed in a mage with something like Confusion to neutralize the Sam....or maybe even manage to turn him on the rest of the team with Control Actions. TPK! :grinbig: Or did he manage to cover off the magic weakness?

Another option is 1BG. One Bad Guy just for the Sam. Sic a high force spirit of beast on him and watch him crap his drawers. :) Remember that a spirit can be loaned out and take orders from a mundane so you don't even a mage in the opposition ranks to do that. It is cooking the books a bit to have him concentrate on the Sam, but after all if the Sam is actually managing to do damage while not getting hurt he becomes a high priority target. If he isn't doing damage then hell, why are the opponents wasting bullets on him?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Metatron
post Apr 18 2006, 01:44 PM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 11-April 06
From: In cover, with good line of sight
Member No.: 8,451



QUOTE (Ophis)
Stay at home riggers, hate em hate em hate em!
Poeple scared of taking risks then whinging about drones getting smashed, didums shut up!
Sorry I appear to be ranting.

What he said.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azralon
post Apr 18 2006, 01:55 PM
Post #23


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,651
Joined: 23-September 05
From: Marietta, GA
Member No.: 7,773



QUOTE (Glyph)
I think the fact that all of the character types are candidates for "unbalancing character type" shows that the game is actually pretty balanced.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well done.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Konsaki
post Apr 18 2006, 01:58 PM
Post #24


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,526
Joined: 9-April 06
From: McGuire AFB, NJ
Member No.: 8,445



@blakkie
We had a good enough mage that he wasnt overpowered but he was with that Sam the entire time. The magic was covered due to that, and I did throw a big guy against him, but the Sam had 12B so anything short of a WhiteKnight longauto wouldnt have done anything but bruise him. :S Not that S damage was bad, but that would have been way out of char for the goons and would have killed the rest of the team. Hell, I had them equiped with AKs and almost 1shotted the rigger with a SS. :dead:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Azralon
post Apr 18 2006, 02:13 PM
Post #25


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,651
Joined: 23-September 05
From: Marietta, GA
Member No.: 7,773



QUOTE (Konsaki)
I did throw a big guy against him, but the Sam had 12B so anything short of a WhiteKnight longauto wouldnt have done anything but bruise him.

If anyone has trouble threatening a PC will a 12 Body, send a melee mage after them with a suite of Decrease (Attribute) spells available. Or load that spell up in a spirit of Man.

GM: "The elf touches you briefly with his fingers, and you feel woozy. Roll Willpower."
Sam: "I spend Edge. 3 hits."
GM: "Okay, your Charisma temporarily goes down by 2."
Sam: "Um, oh. I only have a 2."
GM: "Good night, sweet prince."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 11:23 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.