I hate ______ character types, they really unbalance the game Options

[Konsaki]

Sorry, he didnt have 12body, he had 14body with 12 ballistic armor. Though I never thought about using the decrease attribute in that way...

[Shrike30]

I've always had issue with the concept that decreasing someone's charisma can knock them unconcious, but that's just me. I know my players would think it was lame.

The three easiest ways I've found to "deal with" (IE, pose a threat to) the stereotypical troll tank builds are...

-Static defenses: Be these cyberware detectors, automated gun turrets, or hallways that can seal off and fill with Neurostun, these will keep troll tanks on their toes.

-Escalating response: The troll tank is rarely good at keeping a fight quiet. Even if it's quiet on HIS end, I rarely field corpsec forces using suppressed weapons in a traditional "guard" role, and they often come rigged with communications gear, biomonitors, or gunfire detectors in the area to clue in everyone else nearby.

-Drawing fire: You're a security guard. You're down behind a table or a wall somewhere in a lab, you peek your head around the corner, and what do you see? A couple of muzzle flashes from the guys in the trenchcoats poking their pistols out from behind the big solid objects they prefer to hide behind, and four cubic feet of fire pouring out of the muzzle of the LMG the ten foot tall, 700 pound dude is spraying the room down with. Given this list of targets for your return fire/grenade/manabolt/commlink-command-to-the-autogun-turret-in-the-ceiling, which do you think would be the highest priority? Diverting more fire towards the tank isn't lame, or cheating on the GM's part... it's the obvious choice.

[Azralon]

Dropping any of someone's attributes to zero disables them, but they don't necessarily have to be unconscious.

If Charisma is supposed to be their force of personality or whatever, then maybe at that point they become completely unmotivated and just sit there staring off into space.

Zeroing out Logic can shut down their decision-making capacity. Zeroing Intuition could mean they lose their ability to interpret their senses and memories. Zeroing Willpower can mean they lose any sense of self and are incapacitated by confusion.

Dropping the physical stats to zero could mean shutting down the person's voluntary muscle control in any number of relevant ways.

Explain it however feels best, but they don't actually have to be unconscious. Just effectively shut down.

[Egon]

I don't know if I would say they are unbalance but mages are the hardest to deal with from a gm's point of view.

As a gm I can just geek a dumb pc mage that is not the problem, pcs do it to npc mages all the time. It just makes me feel dirty. What can I say don't like beating on the retarded kid everyday ether.

On the other hand a smart pc mage will drive me nuts because they will tend spend hours pouring over the ill written magic sections looking or the next rules hack to spring on me in the middle of the game. I hate the line "but its magic". Since the laws of physics don't apply they seem to think common sense shouldn't ether. I wish the magic rules were written like computer programs with clear inturperations. I wish mages wouldn't come up with crap and try to spring it on me in the middle of a run.

If something sounds to good to be true could you at least run it past the gm and get his ruling on it. I know, I know you must hord you new found toy, or the npcs could prepare for it since they know what the gm knows. But think about it do you want your gm to have to tell you are wrong during a combat where you could die or out of game where it wont effect the game.

The gm and the pc should always be on the same page. That is the first step to a good game. If you play a mage do you and your campaign a favor and play smart. Remember you a soft and popable your first action would be better spent finding cover, even if that cover is a street sam, then casting your biggest aoe spell before other pcs get into your line of sight just because you want to feel effective. Second talk with your gm and get on the same page for spelleffects and spirt powers.

just my rant

[hobgoblin]

[Egon]

true hobgoblin, I just get tired of it with magic because the printed rules are all we have to fall back on.

example turn to goo ... wtf
that isn't open to interpetation or anything

[Divine Virus]

ok. I have a confession. I both love and hate TM drone riggers.

[emo samurai]

If you play mage NPCs, you can abuse their abilities, too.

[Kyoto Kid]

...I think my choice is pretty clear.

I'll stand by my adage...

"Mages are able to defend themselves better against mundane threats than mundanes are able to defend against magical threats" ("Geek the mage first" isn't always surefire)

This goes doubly so if the opposing mage in question happens to be a troll...

For that you need the Panther Assault Cannon.

[Shrike30]

[Piecemeal]

honestly...

*'it aint the weapon. it's the weilder'

players make the munchkin characters.




*(which is also my attitude toward any gunbunny.)

[nezumi]

I've never seen a munchkin gunbunny in SR, and that's because the gunbunny rules are balanced such that more powerful weapons come with a great cost (generally concealability). The troll has a panther assault cannon? That'll really be a lot of help in an AAA zone where Lone Star has a camera on every street corner.

Magic is always concealable and generally reasonably resistant to most forms of physical countermeasures.

[Azralon]