Online Campaign Rules, To make it flow... Options

[frostPDP]

I'm going to be starting an online campaign with some friends of mine, and I was looking for some opinions to think on.

Time-frame: 2-3 hour weekly sessions, plus individual character development time as necessary.

Rules adjustments:

- 100 build points (to curtail munchkins)
- Only one six allowed in each category: Attribute, Skill, Spell-Force. (this obviously does not apply to derived/base skills, such as Magic or Essence)
- Canon initiative. (I'm considering capping initiative passes at 2, and converting the third into an "interrupt" or some-such. Or perhaps a combat-skill bonus.)
- Unlimited successes (keep throwing 6's and keep racking up successes.)
- Three starting contacts: 2 randoms, 1 shared between the group to get it started.
- Additional item; special V.R. electrodes/Matrix apparatus. Not as good as Decking but useful to allow non-Deckers a chance.

Thoughts on these rules? Think it'll work?

[James McMurray]

At only 100 build points there won't be much need for the other caps, as nobody will be able to afford sixes or really high initiative without seriously hampering the character in a lot of other aspects. But as long as the opposition is equally low key and the players don't mind starting so weak it could work.

Of course, just lowering points doesn't really curtail munchkinism, it just means that the munchkin character is weaker. He can still be more powerful than the rest of the group if their minmax skills aren't up to the challenge.

[Kagetenshi]

The good parts:

The shared contact. Nothing inherently good about this, it's just a valid way of making sure everyone's in on the same basic stuff.

The… um, canon initiative? If you don't make the change, that is.

Other than that, can you give us some kind of idea what these changes are intended to address? All we've got is "to curtail munchkins", and this is pretty much the worst way to go about it. What is this special matrix apparatus? How do successes accumulate? So on and so forth.

~J

[Wounded Ronin]

I don't know the SR4 rules but I don't understand what trying to curtail munchkins has to do with making the campaign "flow" better.

I GMed online for years using SR3 and in my experience online campaigns are slow because everyone has to do t3h typing. I'd suggest having one session a week for 5 or 6 hours to give everyone time to accomplish crap instead of two shorter sessions.

[Kagetenshi]

Wait, what? Is this SR4? I thought SR4 already had the cap for 6s.

Yeah, it has to be SR3, he mentions spells having Force.

~J

[James McMurray]

I missed that. Ignore the 100BP comment from me, as I don't know what that'll buy you so I have no idea if it's too high or too low.

[Kagetenshi]

Too low. Not the crazy-insane-low total it would be in SR4, but certainly way too low to worry about anyone bothering to play a mage (full mages costing 30 of those 100 points, aspected or adepts costing 25) and thus being eligible to take Spells that might have Force 6.

~J

[hyzmarca]

Also, with a 100 BP limit in SR4 very few character will have any stats higher than 2 and fewer still will have any skill higher than 1.

Limiting BP just ensures more specialized characters. To reduce munchkinism becks is the way to go. It is the least exploitable of all build systems.

[mmu1]

Having only 100BP (as opposed to the standard 123-125) will only encourage munchkins to do their worst, because now the only way to have a strong character will be to exploit the rules as much as possible... You can have a munchkin in a campaign of any power level.

On top of that, it's going to hit various archtypes unequally - riggers and deckers will have the easiest time of all, street sams will get screwed, but will at least be able to substitute for lousy stats with chrome, and physads (and most non-aspected magicians, probably) will completely get the shaft.

Have you considered simply not playing with munchkins?

[James McMurray]

The only way to curtail munchkinism is through strict policing of characters prior to the start fo the game to make sure they're alright. Every system that allows a decent amount of choices can be cheesed.

[Kagetenshi]

[ragingonanist]

as to this Additional item are you thinking of trodes as described on page 17 of matrix? or just tortoise mode such as page 42. Incase you don't have that book trodes reduce reaction and initiative but work otherwise like a datajack while tortoise mode is decking without simsense and is severely restricted in speed, sensor, and detection factor.

[Taran]

[Kagetenshi]

I don't disagree with you, I just don't consider that a defense of BeCKS.

~J

[frostPDP]

Okay, few things that were I guess unclear:

Its gonna be one, 2-3 hour long session a week, plus extras.
SR3

The reason for the low skill cap is because those 25 extra points tend to get thrown into skills, and in the end everyone winds up with high firearms, stealth, and ettiqute. I want more specialization, as well as a bit of a growth curve on the munchkins. Since I'll likely be playing with both n00bs and skilled players, there's no way to stop some munchkining, but if its not extreme it allows the n00bs a chance to get skill of their own, rather than just depending on one or two dudes.

[Kagetenshi]

A lot of the time those 25 extra points actually get thrown into being Awakened, or an Otaku, or a race other than Human or Dwarf.

That said, while there's some degree to which you can help make a system ungameable, ultimately a rules-based approach to munchkinism is doomed to failure. For all but the most extreme Predator Omega-style munchkins, the rules are their element. Fighting them where they are strongest is at best a waste of energy.

~J

[James McMurray]

Well said.

[Taran]

[James McMurray]

Depending on the tone of the campaign, I might even refuse to run with someone that didn't have good stealth abilities.

[Kremlin KOA]

streetsam with theSkillwires CED combo is the way to munch out thehundred points

30 polints for the million
52 points for stats (6 int 5 qui 3 str 4 everything else)
05 points for dwarf making stats 5 5 5 4 6 5
06 points for main combat skill
06 points for secondary combat skill
01 points for goodlooking and knows it

buy the Skillwires/CED combo and a subdermal pocket, with a datajack in it
get a skillsoft jukebox, place in pocket, and have it connect to the datajack
haqve pocket sealed, they need to surgically open you up to find it

spend half or so of the million on other ware to make you a combat god leaving a couple hundred thousand for skillsofts, and similar for contacts and lifestyle and gear

you will have 6 dice in most skills
your lowest stat is your charisma of 4
as quickness got boosted by muscle toner.

suggested ware (all alpha for the cyber)
dermal sheath 1
kevlar bone lace
smartlink
range finder
cyber ears with bal aug and dampner
the skillwire combo
flare comp
electronic magnification 3
low light vision
essence loss 3.2

bioware
muscle aug 4
cerebral boost 2
enhanced articulation
synaptic accel 1
superthyrhoid gland
synthacardium 2
muscle aug 1
bio index 5.5


final stats

body 6 (9)
quickness 10
strength 7
charisma 4
intelligence 8
willpower 5

Reaction 11
initiative 11 +2D6
magic 0
essence 2.8
bio index 5.5


skills
Unarmed 6(7)
Pistols 6(7)

(skilled chips for just about everything else) 3 with dedicated pools of 3 = 6
except athletics which gets + 3 dice for 9 and -2 TN in most situations

there
see 100 points doesn't stop munchkins

few active skills he did not cheat on
butmany knowledge skills (40 pointsworth)
so he spent most of his time reading andwatchingtrid, then got the skillwires coz his dad had some cashcash

EDIT: Oh james. 7 dice of stealth enough?

[James McMurray]

Anyone who takes the million should be shot. :)

[Kremlin KOA]

wellthere goes my rigger/decker concept where being rigger as well as decker I don't take up half the game time

[Wounded Ronin]

[frostPDP]

LOL I don't think any of my players that know the game that well would want to take the million nuyen plunge, for simple reason that they would find themselves either not enjoying the game as much due to their elite skill, or not enjoying the game as much due to the fact that money, in my sick and twisted mind, brings fame - and within two runs their character would be ambushed and smoked ;)

But yeah, resource-restriction is the only way I've thought up to restrict super-generalization.

- Edit to respond to Robin -

Maybe I do! Or maybe I don't want the team Decker to be able to shoot with the accuracy of a street sam? Or for the Adept to be able to computer hack because he had left-over points...

Remembering that a stealth of 3 is average, is it much to ask for a runner to only have 4, rather than 6?

[Lindt]

Id post my own reason Ill never let players use BECKS, but hes currently involved in a game over in WttS... mundane human = GODLIKE skills.

But I agree, the lower build cap almost forces you player to be MORE streamlined with his build. There are just some core skills each archtype needs to exist, and another set a shadowrunner needs to live. And stealth, athletics, ediquitte, and a gun skill are the biggies.