 Gas Vents and Suppressors, have your cack and mute it too? |
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 Apr 18 2006, 06:30 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478  |
i am not an avid player of SR4 as of yet, only this last monday having sat in on a v4 game. i do have various incarnations of SR all the way back to the original printing.. unmodded first release. yeah yeah, big deal. i know. so while i have been around SR for decades, my applied knowledge base isn't vast. being that i am new to the boards, i havent yet sifted through all the posts wherein this question might have been answered any number of years ago.
i have a REAL problem with the infamous Ingram Smartgun and it's off-the-shelf GV2 and SndSpr. without having stated the GV2 is an equavilancy of some pure gunsmithing ingenuity that doesnt require directional muzzle venting; how can it possibly function in tangent with a suppressor, which -by sheer purpose- traps... redirects... more or less absorbs the expanding gasses propelling the projectile thereby reducing/nigh eliminating muzzle report??? GV is mounted before the suppressor? okay great.. you now have a completely useless suppressor. GV is mounted at the suppressors tip? that leaves you without sufficient expanding gas to counter any burstfire recoil with venting. ! OR ! am i to understand, given the suppressor is removable, you have the option of one tactical benefit or the other from an off-the-shelf model... having the suppressor attached for the stealthy approach or having it removed for the balls-to-the-wall firefights? oh ye of knowledge, enlighten this confused guntrog :grinbig: |
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Apr 18 2006, 06:33 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
This has been argued quite a bit on the forum. In short: Some folks (like me) don't care much and let it go. Others say you can only use one or the other at a time. Others have set fire to their SR4 book.
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Apr 18 2006, 06:36 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
If you're looking for a gun realism debate, you came to the right place. You can either chalk it up to advanced 2070 technologies or limit it. Being able to use only one at a time is a decent idea. My group just lets it work as written.
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Apr 18 2006, 06:47 PM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Technology doesn't have much to do with it. By the very definitions of the two pieces of equipment, their effects are mutually exclusive. You could just change the Smartgun to have 2 points of internal recoil compensation instead, or you could have the suppressor be removable and be attached over the gas venting like you said. |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:01 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
well... after carefully rereading the whole line of description text for the Ingram Smartgun i find that it does NOT state the suppressor is integral. having now succeeded in my Common Sense Perception test i understand the Ingram to present the owner with tactical options of either stealth or burstfire accuracy by simply removing or attaching the suppressor.
now i DO see the Ingram as a handy compact Spray n' Slay. :D of course i will happily knuckle slap anyone who thinks they have a keen little retro mod'd piece of killgear that sports an integral suppressor and GVs. |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:05 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
The right place for a debate, indeed! However, if you're looking for a satisfactory resolution to that debate.... ;) |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:17 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
haha too true, Azralon, but my specific question is pretty much resolved. had i spent just a few more moments reading about the damned weapon i wouldnt have had the urge to post at all. i'm glad i did post, however. granted i solved my own dilemna, hopefully this string may solve said same problem other people might have had. viola, i have achieved forum purpose.
of course i havent really experienced forum posting until i get flamed by half a dozen or so people.... so i still have that to look forward to. |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:22 PM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
As long as the debate is about gun realism, I'm pretty confident we can find resolutions. The "satisfactory" is the hard part. Lots of folks aren't satisfied by facts, so it gets tricky. |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:32 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
i suppose this isnt the time to bring up a further annoyance... the design of the Ares Alpha and how it cant possibly possess anything other than a single shot breachload GL. (other than the face value design of the weapon, i rather like it.)
hmm.. i suppose the clip could be mounted on the side of the weapon the design doesnt present to you. or is it simply the design fails to present itself with the GL clip inserted? right.. right.. i am breaking from my own string... too nit-picky. i'ma ST*U about the Alpha for now. |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:35 PM
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#10
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well there is allso the question of playability without a scientific calculator :silly: |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:41 PM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
That's a different matter altogether. Playability is a subjective issue where resolutions satisfactory to everyone are impossible to achieve, while you can achieve objective truths in "how guns work". |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:45 PM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
check the smiley, it was a joke...
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Apr 18 2006, 07:47 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
You haven't gotten flamed yet? U N00B!!!!1 |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:57 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
i'll try to be more ignorant and egotistically blindsighted in future posts, honest. |
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Apr 18 2006, 07:57 PM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Just because something is a joke doesn't meant it can't not make sense.
You play Shadowrun all wrong, and you have a small penis! |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:07 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Why do you think you can have recoil compensation or supressor on the ingram, but not both ?
(somehow I sond like Eliza :( ) |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:09 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Woo, points for the nostalgia. |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:19 PM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 19-December 05 Member No.: 8,082 |
Recently a player in game used a submachine gun with silencer.
When the GM stated that the guards heard the attack he was very argumentative. It took a few minutes to explain that even with a silenced gun "explosive ammo" still makes noise. Ahh realism. |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:21 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
erm.. backpage and scan the initial post. i believe i spelled it out. |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:24 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Actually, someone pointed out in one thread or the other, that explosive rounds in SR are solid slugs which just fragment on impact, so no more noise than regular ammo.
I thought, they were more like the robocop type of explosive rounds, which exploded ;). Edit: I did read your initial post, and I don't see it ;). |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:35 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
mmmkay, Blume.... grrr forcing me to quote myself... EBIL!!!
i believe that is what you are not seeing, maybe? |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:37 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I see where the problem is ;).
I am quoting rules, you are (possibly) quoting reality :grinbig: . |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:46 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 18-April 06 From: midwest Member No.: 8,478 |
i am (exactly) quoting reality.
i was kinda hoping there might have been errata out there someone would have posted me privvy to. all i did was expose myself :eek: to an acceptable houserule, it seems. |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:46 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I believe you mean Nikoli, in this thread. He only pointed out that SR's explosive ammunition are not explosive in his games. They are quite clearly meant to be explosive in canon. |
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Apr 18 2006, 08:53 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Yeah, that's the one. And after rereading the corresponding rule, i think i have a limited attention span, since the rule states the round fragments and explodes.
So, i never have said anything about this... |
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