[X] My Assistant

[Big D]

Whatever you use to make the actual breach (AV, demo, thermite), I'd definitely cast high-force Silence and Trid Phantasm on the wall.

The catch is, the interior will be out of LOS, and the vibration from your activity is going to be transmitted *somewhere*. So, don't expect the guards not to notice.

You're probably best off going with a distraction, a big boom somewhere else. Or, if you can pull it off, hack their system and forge paperwork turning the prisoners over to another agency (you, dressed in very nice black suits with a red-hot face taking point, and some manipulation support for backup).

[Dranem]

I would expect most SR prisons to have magical wards to prevent magical intervention....
Or at lest watchers.

[Nikoli]

I think Big D might have the right of it.
Those walls are big and thick for a purpose.

What's more like a shadowrun? Breeching a fortress or walking in, tricking them and them walking out with none the wiser?

[hobgoblin]

both, it depends on the parameters of the run...

[mintcar]

Infect the wall with rockworms well ahead of time. They're nasty vermin, and the wall would propably have to be demolished. Make the entry during the construction of the new wall.

[Clyde]

Summon a spirit with the weather control power and have it whip up a nice loud thunderstorm ahead of time. That'll provide lots of loud noises, and might even knock out main power or interfere with communications. Won't totally fool them, but combined with a silence spell around the area of the actual rocket attack you've got a damn good start.

Not sure how loud an Ares Firelance vehicle mounted laser is. Guessing it's a moot point, because you probably don't have one :(

[TBRMInsanity]

Hey the best of both worlds a spirit and a troll!

:D

[Edward]

You best bet is a silence spell, send a spirit inside to cast in on the far side, the mage casts it on the outside of the wall, use the AV rockets.

This of cause requires a mage with the stealth spell and acceptable conjuring of spirits of man and access to AV missiles. Or some other unsubtle way to breach the wall.

You could do a limited version using eth stealth spell, cast on the missile (or explosive) and the wall, possibly the floor as well (inside and out)

Before you try any of this recon the prison’s astral security, your spells may be noticed.

Edward

[Shrike30]

Hell, recon the prison design, make sure they don't have any circuits built into the walls to detect major breaches.

I'll be honest, I think getting through an exterior wall is the least of your troubles, unless that one hole in the wall is going to get you where you're going. Most prisons are designed to only let people move from one part to the next if a guard says it's okay, and with the advent of technomancers, I think their security is most likely not wireless if they can help it.

Thermite is probably your quietest way in (it sounds like a loud hiss when it burns), but the smoke and heat will probably set off the fire alarms (that crap produces an impressive amount of smoke). A microwelder isn't gonna cut it (no pun intended)... while those things can be used to burn through deadbolts, hinges, and stuff like that, they're really not built to go through entire walls. You might be able to burn an inch-deep trough in the wall, sure, but actually cut through it? Not happening.

Drilling in concrete is incredibly loud, and if it's reinforced concrete you run the added risk of possibly hitting rebar, which will only be louder. I honestly think your best chance of getting in and out quietly is to try and slip through a legit entrance in disguise... going through a wall of a building designed to keep people from going through its walls should be phenomenally difficult.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Getting through a thick concrete wall with thermite will take a long-ass time. The temperature it causes is high enough to slowly erode concrete, but you'll have to work a few millimeters at a time.

You could do it much faster with an industrial-grade thermic lance. No idea just how much noise that makes, but I'm guessing it's quite loud enough.

[Ki Ryn]

I (the orginal poster) wasn't actually asking about a prison. :) I used the word prisoner and that lead to some assumptions. Since I had already gotten my answer (there is no Passwall spell, no lightsaber, and no quiet explosive solution) I let the thread go off on that tangent since others seemed to be interested in the prison break scenario.

In my actual case, we're trying to rescure a girl being held in a brothel in the Redmond Barrens. It's a 4 story tenament building with similar buildings on either side and guards in front and back.

After reading the equipment rules we've found that there's no way we can get any new gear in time to be of use. So we're just going to shoot our way in the back door.

[Shrike30]

[Austere Emancipa...]

[Big D]

Yeah, that changes things considerably. Shooting your way into a prison would be very risky, given the speed and quantity of reinforcements; here, maybe it's not so bad.

I'd still go with a distraction, though. If nothing else, some demo tied to a remote detonator that you trigger through AR right before you hit the door.

[Paul]

To continue further off topic: Most prisons are designed to keep people in, with little thought at how to keep people from getting in. You'd be surprised at how easy it could be.

[chevalier_neon]

Depending on the wall, but from time to time it can be easiest to go "over" the wall (levitate, skydiving with an air spirit to soften the fall etc.)

[Edward]

There is always the power magic option,

Have your mage summon the biggest spirit of man he can giving it the power bolt, power ball, acid stream or some other suitable spell. And as a single service ask the spirit to bring down the wall as quickly and quietly as possible. The spirit will then blast the wall into smithereens using nice quiet magic.

The way you described your target they probably wont have much astral watch but you should recon anyway and you don’t need to worry about the difficulty of acquisition unless you don’t have a mage with descent conjuring and a suitable spell.



Edward

[Moon-Hawk]

If a mage summons a spirit with innate spell, who then casts a spell, who's signature is left? The spirit's (which is meaningless once the spirit evaporates into the ether), the mage's (which will linger for a day unless erased), or both (or some other weird combination)?

[hobgoblin]

given that a spirit can be used to astraly trace the summoner, i would say it would be the signature of the mage, but with a extra bit to indicate a spirit (only showing up with a greater number of hits then needed to locate the signature).

[Ki Ryn]

[Geekkake]

[Kremlin KOA]

This sounds like a "White Tiger" Scenario.

My advice

2x20 liter Jerry cans of petrol

20kg of fertiliser
5kg of styrofoam

Put fertiliser in the petrol of can A
Put styrofoam in the petrol of can B

leave for 24 hours SEALED

Toss can B in and shoot with a tracer round... Napalm in lobby = distraction

Use Can A and a silence spell to detonate the back wall

It will have the blast for a standard wall

[Austere Emancipa...]

Not that I've personally tried, but I doubt a 50-50 mix of gasoline and ammonium nitrate fertilizer provides a very efficient detonation. You might want to try 94% AN mixed with 6% fuel oil. Globalsecurity.Org has this to say about the mixing process:
"Uniform mixing of oil and ammonium nitrate is essential to development of full explosive force. Some blasting agents are premixed and packaged by the manufacturer. Where not premixed, several methods of mixing in the field can be employed to achieve uniformity. The best method, although not always the most practical one, is by mechanical tier. A more common and almost as effective method of mixing is by uniformly soaking prills in opened bags with 8 to 1O percent of their weight of oil. After draining for at least a half hour the prills will have retained about the correct amount of fuel oil.

Fuel oil can also be poured onto the ammonium nitrate in approximately the correct proportions as it is poured into the blasthole. For this purpose, about 1 gal of fuel oil for each 100 lb of ammonium nitrate will equal approximately 6 percent by weight of oil. The oil can be added after each bag or two of prills, and it will disperse relatively rapidly and uniformly."

Because of the problem of properly priming ANFO, if you don't have a character with a decent Demolitions skill I'd suggest simply buying 30kg of TNT instead.

[Kremlin KOA]

true I got a few of my proportions wrong but I described a 60-40 mix, not a 50-50

20 liters of Petrolis significantly less than 20kgs

oh and ya might need more styrofoam than i described

[Austere Emancipa...]

I don't think the relative amounts are quite as problematic there as the fact any old petrol/gasoline does not necessarily mix with AN to form an explosive with anywhere near the performance of ANFO. According to the Globalsecurity.Org article, AN can be mixed with certain kinds of oil up to a 50-50 ratio with no appreciable loss in performance as long as it's mixed right.

To get military grade napalm B, you'd also need benzene. But, if you really intend to just throw the canister inside and ignite it with a tracer round or several, you'd probably be better off with just the gasoline.