 Knowsoft Question, Short and to the point. |
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 Apr 23 2006, 03:26 PM
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#26
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650  |
SEADOGS!!!! SEADOGS!!!!! |
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Apr 23 2006, 05:27 PM
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#27
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
its not so much software as its correct and incorrect trigger patterns for neurons. still, it may well boil down to the same thing. thing is tho, that a human can at will adapt his thinking to a new situation. thats why a chipped skill cant use edge, edge is a indication of ones ability to think creatively on the spot (so in theory, macgyver would be a human with maxed edge). therefor a chipped language may be linguisticaly perfect, but will be totaly dry. any kind of creative use of a language will basicly not work... |
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Apr 23 2006, 05:32 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
I don't buy that, though. The creative center of the brain is divorced from the part that stores language. The creativity doesn't happen in the Linguasoft, so there's no reason to assume no creative use of languages acquired through them. Thus, plug in a Linguasoft and wax poetic at will in your new language. =)
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Apr 23 2006, 05:42 PM
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#29
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
another angle then, how much of the brain is overridden. does the linguasoft just grant the skill, or does it directly work the throat and mouth based on the words a user wants to speak...
basicly im starting to think that allowing linguasoft under the same rules as knowsofts makes the linugasofts way to powerfull in their aplication. the knowsofts are more like a schoolbook or similar that you can search at will. language is so much more... |
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Apr 23 2006, 05:55 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
The key here, I think, is in reconciling the fact that the brain's API is known in the year 2070. To my mind, there would be little, if any, physical difference between Linguasofts and Knowsofts. Neither requires skill wires. Each is, for all intents and purposes, tacking on an additional portion of the brain with new information; the new portion/info interfaces with the rest of the brain just like previously existing portions of the real brain, providing the brain's higher functions (creativity, etc.) will all the tools as if they were real.
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Apr 23 2006, 06:13 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
It's ASSIST. Same interface used in everything else that talks to your brain.
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Apr 23 2006, 06:28 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
Just to clarify, ASIST involves artificial sensory induction, which is not involved with Knowsofts or Linguasofts. It still uses the brain's API, though.
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Apr 23 2006, 06:54 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 |
Don't Knowsofts and Linguasofts require a sim module to function? That may involve some level of ASIST functionality, or the requisite would be pointless. |
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Apr 23 2006, 08:50 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
Skillsofts do not require a sim module. Activesofts require skillwires, Knowsofts and Lingquasofts only require a DNI, which is the API mentioned above. None of these technologies use ASIST. ASIST is only for VR applications.
As an aside, ASIST is only mentioned a couple of times in fourth addition at all. Do a search on the PDF for ASIST and you'll see what I mean. Twice in the history, once in the Jargon dictionary, once under the description of Sim Module, and once in the index. |
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Apr 23 2006, 09:01 PM
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#35
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 |
You can still see a Activesoft through a commlink without a sim module but you would not be able to feel the active soft. This means magically active characters that shun technology can still see what it looks like to say fire a gun but wouldn't know how it feels like to fire a gun.
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Apr 23 2006, 09:04 PM
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#36
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ASIST was the old VR protocol, and is most likely still used when going full VR.
im guessing that AR however uses a kind of simsense with feedback posibility. hmm, i kinda recall those simsense "movies" having a kind of limited interaction ability, diffrent plots based on choices made by the "viewer". activesoft is a full overide via the skillwires. basicly it reads inputs via your senses and sends outputs via the skillwires. so in many ways a activesoft is similar to a drones autosoft (scary thought in a way). but given that knowsofts and linguasofts only need DNI one can start to wonder how they work. are they just books that you can access mentaly, or are they something more? knowsofts are easy to be seen as a kind of book. the problem is linguasoft, given that it gives you a kind of active skill, even tho its just for verbal interaction with the world. edit: ugh! i just read the text covering linguasofts in the equipment list, and it looks like a rating 5 linguasoft would more or less be equal to a native language skill. looks like all the problems attributed to linguasofts are now gone. remind me to get a subscription for the worlds languages to my comlink... |
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Apr 23 2006, 09:10 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
I thought I did a good job of explaining this here...
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Apr 23 2006, 09:12 PM
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#38
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
check my edit...
looks like another thing changed between versions. its not the major changes that gets me, its all those small ones... |
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Apr 23 2006, 09:14 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
It's the new VR protocol, also, it's just that the new edition doesn't bother to really talk much about it. |
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Apr 23 2006, 09:14 PM
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#40
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
so AR is basicly ASIST, but modified?
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Apr 23 2006, 09:42 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
The easiest and most common way to experience AR is through a simrig using ASIST. However, SR4 goes to lengths to convey that a simrig is not required for the basic AR experience (a visual overlay of AROs). |
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Apr 23 2006, 10:35 PM
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#42
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ugh, i have a feeling that whoever is writing the unwired book have a real job to do...
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Apr 24 2006, 07:48 AM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
According to the book, you don't need simsense to see AR. All you need is a display device or image link. AR is a 3D computer interface, much like your desktop is today, only more advanced.
Interacting with the AR world can be done through voice command, AR gloves, a rollout keyboard or thought - for those lucky enough to have a datajack or simsense net. (ware, trodes, paste, etc) |
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Apr 24 2006, 08:38 AM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 |
The DARPA Grand Challenge is more about SR Pilot Programs than Knowsofts or Skillsofts. The part of the challenge most relevant to Shadowrun is that in 2004, the best system only completed seven miles of the course; in 2005, the top five systems all completed the 132 miles. Makes me wonder how good these Pilots could be by 2070. The same question applies to activesofts, autosofts, knowsofts, linguasofts (, programs, hacker tools, IC, etc). How good will these be by 2070? |
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Apr 24 2006, 08:44 AM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 |
Augmented Reality is NOT Virtual Reality. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality and follow the links to learn about AR in RL. You can also try googling "Augmented reality RFID". Don't soil your pants. How good will AR be by 2070? |
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Apr 24 2006, 11:37 AM
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#46
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Know/LinguaSofts specifically require either a Sim Module or a Datajack.
Everything of those is based on ASIST - especially cyberware. :| |
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Apr 24 2006, 01:43 PM
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#47
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
I would impose a similar penalty to what was in SR3. -2 dice on social tests made when using a linguasoft.
You can have as many as you want, even if they need to be put in threw a chip jack (why) you can store any number on a chip. It dose say the GM may declare that a devices memory is full if truly ridicules amounts of data are involved. I would say a standard chip can hold 100 rating points of know soft per point of device rating, just to put some limit on it, Edward |
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Apr 24 2006, 02:02 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
Not sure if you were addressing me specifically but just to be clear, I was not stating that AR is VR. =) |
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Apr 24 2006, 02:48 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 453 Joined: 15-August 02 From: Kansas City, MO Member No.: 3,116 |
ASIST is a technology whose only application is the induction of fake sensory information into the brain... making you see/feel/hear/taste/smell something that isn't really there in the real world. This is wholly and completely divorced from cyberware as a technology. In fact, cyberware isn't even required to experience ASIST-based experiences; and ASIST is not used in ANY cyberware other than sim modules (e.g. smartlink technology does not use ASIST even though it feeds a weapon's camera feed to the user's visual overlay). Regarding the requirement of a simrig or datajack, the exact wording is:
The parentheticals are a well-intentioned, though incomplete, list of avenues to a DNI. For example, a cranial commlink also provides a DNI and can store and execute purchased skillsofts. |
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Apr 24 2006, 02:52 PM
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#50
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
or in other words, ASIST is the prosess of using simsense as a interface to computers. this is done by interpeting normal actions like picking up a virtual object and putting it into a virtual pocket as a computer command to downloading a file.
simsense again builds on top of the DNI tech of cyberware. |
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