 Why do you Shadowrun?, What do you look for in a game? |
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 Apr 27 2006, 03:50 AM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438  |
Yeah, why can't there be more games about feelings and fluffy bunnies? :P
But seriously, why do people persist in saying that action movie-esque elements are incompatible with the very concept of Shadowrun, especially since SR4 recommends ways to infuse games with a "cinematic style?" (p. 69) |
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Apr 27 2006, 03:51 AM
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#52
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
OOOH... I get it. The reason they spend several books detailing expensive equipment is so you never buy it!!!
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Apr 27 2006, 04:02 AM
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#53
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
You probably think I'm a hardass because I post a lot about ways to kill the PCs. Well, I only feel the way I do today because of several years of GMing Shadowrun. I found out that once a player accumulated a certain amount of karma pool and certain items of equipment is was very very hard to create challenging scenarios for that character while still adhereing to what the books defined as being "average" and "professional", on what equipment was widely available and what wasn't, and so forth. I had an episode where I had wanted one very powerful character to retire but the player liked powerful characters and so there was a lot of friction between us. At this present moment, after years of GMing, I don't feel up to GMing anymore. There was a time when some people told me that I was the best SR GM, but what I realized years later is that while I can run a beginning game OK things really fall apart with high power levels unless I do torturous things like throw 100 physads against the PCs and make dice rolls for each one. The high-end player character power levels totally destroyed the enjoyment of the game for me. So I decided that leading the players nicely along and having them win every time and saving them when the chips are down just dosen't end well. Unless you put people up against enough challenge and danger that they need to be burning that karma and not accumulating it to the level of 15 pool dice, unless you demand tactical meticulousness, and unless you let the dice fall where they may, the game quickly becomes meaningless. It says somewhere in SR 3 that PCs must "sweat" for each karma point earned. I think I finally understand what that means. As a player, I lived by that also. I would make weak characters to better challenge myself. |
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Apr 27 2006, 04:04 AM
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#54
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Depends on the Availability, dosen't it? However, your enemies can use it against you. |
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 Apr 27 2006, 04:19 AM
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#55
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Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 2-March 05 Member No.: 7,133 |
Good day Chummers, I like been Game Mastering Shadowrun off and on for 15 years Gaming, but have only been a Player for a grand total of 12 Sessions.
I want to play as a Professional Shadowrunner. Taking jobs to survive and doing the occasional probono More later QM |
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Apr 27 2006, 04:35 AM
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#56
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Of COURSE the enemies use that stuff. And I wasn't talking about you; it's just that it seems ridiculous that you'll be paying professional criminals who end up netting you millions barely above poverty level, making sure they never buy cyberware outside of character creation.
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Apr 27 2006, 04:56 AM
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#57
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Yes you can. I'm not trying to harp on you or call you a cheater. It's just my POV, or I guess I should say my mind set. Like I said, we do have games with characters taht can be pretty out there. We have removed the skills cap in SR4 and made the skills even more expensive after 6 to compensate. I think a big part of it is that I'm the kind of guy that likes to start at first level and build up to 20th (or whatever). So I'd be fine with it if a player started out as a 'standard' runner, built up his character, got worked over ,and due to some hefty favors , got built in to a cyberzombie with a blood spirit in it. But the character would have to act like a cyber zombie. He wouldn't be himself with just a shit load more cyber. He would be a cyberzombie. It's just different tastes. |
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Apr 27 2006, 05:03 AM
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#58
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
The cyberzombie will be very cyberzombie-like even before he gets put back in the body. And I don't take insults as insults; they're just excuses to escalate the insanity until people's minds break and they abandon all pretenses of normality.
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Apr 27 2006, 06:30 AM
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#59
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
FWIW, some of us believe that SR4 is incompatible with the very concept of Shadowrun. ~J |
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Apr 27 2006, 07:07 AM
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#60
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
That being said, some people do like to go overbaord every now and then.
Case in point: The Inhumanoids. Shadowrun, all things being equal, lends itself to absurdity just as much as it lends itself to soul-crushing hopelessness. There's a cliche 80's rocker archetype in one of the editions and there are ninjas. And Drop Bears. You can't get much more absurd than that. |
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Apr 27 2006, 03:25 PM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
Anybody notice the debate going on between a two guys calling themselves "Samurai" and "Ronin?"
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Apr 27 2006, 03:40 PM
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#62
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Holy shit, you're right. And the thing is, the ronin's more of a rules purist than the samurai. That's really weird.
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Apr 27 2006, 10:19 PM
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#63
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Well, "Wounded Ronin" is actually based on the cover of a film that was released in the US as "Samurai Rebellion", which had a black and white photo of a samurai with lots of orange blood painted on. In the movie a samurai decided to rebel against his decadent overlord for being a meanie and deviating from traditional values. Seen in the context of that film you could interpret some kind of championship of rules purism. |
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Apr 28 2006, 12:23 AM
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#64
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Hmmm... And according to the Hagakure, going ronin wasn't necessarily a bad thing as long as it didn't happen because you were caught raping kittens; it allowed you to wander and learn about the world. Ditto about being wounded. Then again, it was sort of okay to be emo.
And what did the wounded ronin mean by deviating from traditionalism? Was it cracking a smile in court every so often, or was it the aforementioned raping of kittens? |
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Apr 28 2006, 01:09 AM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
And the "samurai" is Chinese-American, too! ;) |
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Apr 28 2006, 01:18 AM
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#66
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Actually, I'm just Chinese. My ancestors will hunt you down for that.
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Apr 28 2006, 01:20 AM
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#67
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Zhende ma? Hui shuo putong hua ma?
And ditto Kage. |
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Apr 28 2006, 01:21 AM
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#68
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Shi, wo shi zhong guo ren, wo cong Harbin lai. Keshi, wo jui hui shuo yi dianr zhong wen.
Here's a little bit of English so that I don't lose anybody. And this isn't a translation of what I just wrote. |
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Apr 28 2006, 01:45 AM
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#69
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't sure how exactly you identified yourself, so I went for the most PC route. So when can I expect your ancestors to break down my door and rip me to shreds or whatever? Will it be at a specific time, like just after sundown, or does the supernatural vengeance work more like a cable service--"Please wait between the hours of 3 and 5 PM for your disemboweling?" If I offered them some hell money, would they leave me alone? If so, how much should I offer? |
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Apr 28 2006, 02:18 AM
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#70
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
Lost souls will haunt you at midnight, 12:30 if you're in Newfoundland...
(I lost my copy of Hagakure. Thanks for the reminder. :S ) Since this hijacking is kind of my fault... I've mentioned in a few other threads that the absurdity that Hyzmarca mentioned is overlooked in later Shadowrun products, and that I miss it. Does anyone feel that their options on character background have become more ...limited... as the game tries to take itself more seriously? And just to vent an opinion: RPG's themselves are generally ridiculous and I don't usually get why anyone wants them to be realistic. If I wanted realistic street life, I'd go back to my job working with the homeless. If I wanted realistic combat, I would've joined the army when I had the chance. But that's just me, it doesn't mean that others shouldn't do what they enjoy. Me, I prefer escapism. |
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Apr 28 2006, 02:25 AM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 28-October 03 From: End of Earth 2mi. Home 4mi Member No.: 5,764 |
Amen to escapism. :notworthy:
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Apr 28 2006, 02:39 AM
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#72
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Crash 2.0 basically give you the ability to make anyone a runner. One day you could be Daimen Knight's biggest rival or a top pilot with JapanAIR and the next you're SINless and in the gutter. Or worse arrested and slapped with a criminal SIN.
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Apr 28 2006, 03:36 AM
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#73
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Just do what I do: whatever I want. If your GM doesn't allow it, he's a dick.
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Apr 28 2006, 03:44 AM
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#74
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Which has nothing to do with whether he's a good GM or not. |
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Apr 28 2006, 03:57 AM
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#75
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Yes... it... DOES!!!
Okay, good point. But if you limit things because they're too "implausible," then you make him a boring character in an interesting universe. He'll just be a smuggler, or a gangster with 3 skill in guns, or whatever; your characters will be smuggling guns while Novatech is Thor shotting Art Dankwalther and Harlequin saves the world again. My point is if you make them mice among giants, then they tend to end up the same colored mice. |
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