 Shadowrun Screenplay Project |
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 May 5 2006, 10:51 AM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 3-October 05 Member No.: 7,802  |
I haven't had chance to read all the way through this topic, but an alternative possibility for explaining magic is to have an early (very early) scene with someone doing normal day to day things with the trid on in the background, or something like that. Have a documentary on at the moment, with a brief snippet about the existance of magic, or something else on that does the job equally. This might let you explain magic without making it too obvious. Naturaslly the volume would have to be balanced such that the trid is audible without strain... maybe have the character asleep on the sofa or something instead, or have them walkin with a cup of coffee and sit down, pause for a minute contemplating the documentary shake their head then flick it off or onto another channel.
Maybe phys ads would work well for the show of ffactor too... or even a mystic adept, best of both worlds. As for metas, I guess the cliche is hot Elven women (especially hot Elven women as mages)... An Ork in the main team wouldn't hurt, as long as they were more human looking than average (like the quality in SR4 core rules). I could see the main character as a B&E type, maybe easy on the obvious cyber to not make him too odd. A scene showing the output from a smartlink would be nice too. If you want mainstream there's every possibility that action would help, but if the team were a bunch of "boom boom merchants" it would be rather hollow even to the mainstream. |
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May 6 2006, 08:31 AM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Madison, Wi Member No.: 521 |
Hey all, I hope you don’t mind me giving my 2 cents on the matter. All in all I think the first real SR movie should be very simple. It should only introduce the audience to the SR universe with a “simple” story. This approach allows people to better relate to the world. I think you should tell the story as if it were as real as possible. The prologue should be the only place that you tell the audience the history of SR universe. I personally think that it is a bad idea to try to explain to the audience everything. If you make the movie interesting and cool enough, you can get anyway with explaining less. Pick two maybe three aspects of SR to focus on. For example in SR some things people might have problems relating to would be Magic : I think the more real you make magic the better. Use LOTRS as an example. Matrix : Can you think of any movies that did a good job showing this? Personally I think SR4 is a much better universe to show of matrix, but I won't go there now. Rigging : I think it would be challenging to make this look cool, especially from an actor POV. For example watch Firefly and try to imagine Wash as a rigger. Notice how many cool interactions with the crew are lost. A rigger may be too efficient for a principle character. On the other hand a vehicle chase is almost required ... even though I think they are too Hollywood cliché. Critters : Bad idea. If you are going to introduce a critter you have to be careful or at best you are going to become typical Sci Channel quality movie. Personally I don't think there should be any critters ... there is already enough to do without adding a monster to it. Eralston
I agreed. Assuming you want to make a movie that appeals to everyone. This approach is not a cop out, but a wise one to help the audience get into the story. As soon as you see your protagonist with tusks, you are going to lose people. Emo Samuri
There is no need to stress this at all, because there is already enough going on. As long as you stay true to the spirit of SR, it WILL be exotic to general audience. James McMurray
It goes deeper than making money. It is about making something that everyone can enjoy. Again look at the LOTRS ... it is a extremely geeky movie and there were a lot of changes to make it more "mainstream", but people loved it anyway. Eralston
I COMPLETELY disagree! Making a good movie is like making soup. You can't add everything in the cupboard and expert it to be good. Of course I am not implying you guys would just throw stuff in without thinking. Making a movie is an organic process. Each thing you add changes the things added before it. You must be EXTREMELY careful with adding new elements. Don't just add cool stuff and expect it to improve things. Also in regards to "movie convention and proven methods", don't make that a rule. Be knowledgeable about the conventions and methods if you can, but most importantly go with you gut. Also ALWAYS be honest in regards to the quality of what you are doing. If you don't think it is good, you really need to consider changing or removing it. This is also a good reason to make the story VERY simple. The more you add, the more difficult it will be to adjust. On top of that editing it will take FOREVER. No office Eralston, but your movie suffered this fatal flaw. You had soo much you wanted to tell. That it blinded you from telling a simpler and more effective story. Less would have been more.
I think the movie should be as current as possible (post-2070)... it kills me to say that, but I think it is for the best if you really want to have a future. I know this is the direction I am pushing the movie I am working on.
Agreed. I think the best combo is a human male protagonist with female elf partner ... not romantic! Also the female character needs to be just as strong in character, as the protagonist. I think that Mel and Zoe from Firefly is a good example of what I am talking about. They have a strong working relationship that fosters intimacy. The audience will automatically think romantic even if nothing supports it.
Actually I think "Never Deal with a Dragon" has some great elements to it. The idea that the protagonist isn't a shadowrunner from the start is good one. ChuckRozool
I mean no offense, but that sounds bad and I love Office Space. FanGirl
One word ... Neo and I mean that in a good way. emo samurai
Agreed, but not for the same reasons. Again I think being mindful of the general audience is not a bad thing. On the other hand you shouldn’t compromise the core of your work, just to appease the average person. ChuckRozool
I wish you all the luck in the world. A co-worker and I are going to do the same. He is a low budget film-maker and has the experience. I am helping him learn about the SR universe, he really likes the idea.
If you are willing to pay money, I know plenty of professional artists and animators. Shadow
Again I mean no offense, but stay away from the love interest part. While I think a STRONG love story element is very important, be careful not to be cliché with it. For example don't do Male protagonist with female partner ... i.e. insert love interest On the other hand it would be kind of cool to have a marriage couple, but that is too mature for the target audience. Seperate Tangent Remember that just because you know an element of the story is not cliché, doesn’t mean other people will get it. It is extremely easy to overestimate your own ability to convey a story. Sometimes you need to tell more and other times less.
Yeah, I like the idea of opening the film with this to. Have a no-name shadowrun team extract the main character or better yet, someone close to him and he hunts them down ... you may or may not want to avoid this cliché "He then joins the rebels, because they really the good guys" angle.
As long as you are a realist with what you do, I fully support it. Eralstion
Again isn’t' WK against pre2070 material? Just make sure you are not shooting yourselves in the foot before you start. emo samurai
It isn't a bad idea. Although I would only show a dragon during the prologue as you explain the basic nature of SR ... i.e. show the silhouette of a Great Dragon awakening. No words should direct your attention to the dragon, you just see it. No words are needed. Shadow
Or better yet in the background of a scene you see the "Wyrm Talk Show" a tri video
Unless you want to let the audience learn as you go, which could work. You need a good prologue. Personally I think a prologue is the way to go.
This isn't a bad thing if it helps the audience get into the world ... which then makes introducing the main characters more effective.
I think you are showing your geek traits too strong here. Not everyone who went to see these movies saw/read early material. For example Serenity: I work with a LOT of sci geeks and a good number of them weren't familiar with Firefly at all. Starwars: There are plenty of younger people who haven't seen the older films. How many people have actaully read the books? LotR: This means jack to a movie audience. I personally love LOTRS, but never read the books. On the other hand I already know all about the stories from audio books ... I bet you most of the people that saw the films, Never read the books. The books don't matter, but they gave Peter Jackson a phenomenal material to work with. Keep in mind that a LOT of people saw these films. A lot of people means you have a fairly generic audience.
This certainly worked for the Matrix movie, but I am not confidence that it would work for SR without a prologue. SR would be a far more difficult film to make comprehendible. The Matrix film had ONE overall idea. SR could go in a lot more directions.
Again don’t weigh yourself down with "proven methods" The prologue to Fellowship of the Ring was suppose to only be two minutes ... it is closer to 7 mins in the final cut. Imagine what would have happen if there wasn't a prologue... SR may not be as rich as LOTRS, but to someone that doesn't know SR; it might as well be. Again do what is best for the film and don't follow standards. The art dictates what needs to be done. This will help make the film feel fresh. If you really study films I bet you will agree that many of the bad films, follow story telling standards that castrated the film. The really good films bend or even break move standards.
I completely agree. There is no good way to do immortal elves and isn’t worth mentioning in a SR. If nothing else you run the risk of confusing people.
I completely agreed! However I still think a silhouette of a dragon in the prologue while talking about the past, is a great way to show magic in the word. The dragon wouldn’t be a character at all, just device to reinforced the fantastical element ... it of course needs to be done in a real way. Tangent All in all I think the movie should be about a guy who becomes a shadowrunner. At the beginning is a person we, as an 21 century audience can relate to. However through the course of the film, we like the main character become use to the shadows as our new life. Much like FanGirl wrote about. emo samurai
As much as like this idea, it would be wise to avoid a story with Racism elements. While you should elude to the fact that metahuman are the new minorites, don't dwell on it. Nothing makes people more uncomfortable then racism. Some flims make this their center point and still don't get it right. It would be better not even to go there, because you will muddle with the final product. Remeber the soup analogy. Trust me on this one You guys have some good ideas let us know if you want more opinions. ;) -Mardegun from Black Bird Studio |
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May 6 2006, 02:59 PM
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#78
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Can I work on your movie?
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May 6 2006, 03:37 PM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Madison, Wi Member No.: 521 |
? Thanks for the offer, but it is still to early. Why do you ask anyway?
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May 6 2006, 04:18 PM
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#80
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 225 Joined: 1-November 05 Member No.: 7,917 |
Ok, it's time for a little recap of consensus. I hope for this to be the last tangent on quality assurance before actually sorting out story ideas. We have had a few moments of taking ideas and running with them, let's gear up for that
Do we all agree that... 1) Stories are organic 2) Demand of the organic story is the primary decision criteria on content (we should not be saying "we need a dragon" we should be asking if our "current story needs a dragon"). Any piecemeal suggestions are to be directed to the pitch your snippet thread 3) Demand of the organic story is primary decision criteria on characters Thinking on those points, think on our current story idea 1) Do we need the extraction, is there another starting point? Justify the extraction 2) Concerning the "changeling" plot, are we trying to "cure" all metas or kill all metas? What is more terrible, what offers the most possibility, what offers the best possibility? 3) If we are telling the story from an outside viewpoint, how are we to handle the runners? There is a lot more in this thread thus far, but try it in chunks |
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May 6 2006, 08:27 PM
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#81
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Wow I really liked your ideas Mard and I agree with most of them. The one thing I have to stress (again) is that we are not making a movie. We are writing a screen play. There is a huge difference.
I totally agree that we should keep it simple, and keep it as close to SR as possible. So the story will be about Shadowrunners, one team to be exact. A story centered around the extraction of an important scientist will be involved in the central theme of the story. The team will have the male protagonist, and the extractee will be the female protagonist. The lead character will be Human (possibly an Elf) and the female character will be human. I just watched MI3 and I am really stoked about the way JJ used a Mcguffin (think Ronin and the case). I think that could really work here for what the scientist has researched. I have been giving this a lot of thought since we started this thread and I am really excited about the possibility of what we could all accomplish. So let us keep it moving forward!! |
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May 7 2006, 03:19 AM
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#82
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Madison, Wi Member No.: 521 |
Shadow
Thanks for the complement.
Agreed <Tangent1> As I wrote to Eralstion in an email I think a screenplay is not enough. I am a bit of a realist on this subject. I just have a gut feeling that even a great screenplay won’t mean anything to WK. I doubt if they would even read it. This means you will have to promote the screenplay yourself … are you ready to do this? Do you know how to? Even if you do, what about licensing rights? These kinds of questions are important if you don’t want to waste your time … unless the creative process is the reward. </Tangent1> <Tangent2> For example the story and eventual screen play I am working on will not be grandiose at all or ideal. In fact this project will only be a promotional thing for the real project later. Because as you said none of us here can sponsor a “real” movie. A screenplay is more or less an idea. Ideas are a dime a dozen, which is why you need to make something cool. I strongly believe that this the only way you are going to make this thing happen. While this first movie won’t be a “real” movie, it will be a low budget one. My partner has the experience, contacts and some equipment to make this happen. I am also lucky in that I have co-workers who are great artists and animators. I could probably convince them to do some probono work … which will give us the ability to do some CG work …maybe <fingers crossed>. In any case while this may not be ideal, it will be a stepping stone to something real later. We also have to be extremely realistic and take in considerations our resources. For example we need to look at our available actors and craft a story that will suit their strengths and none of their weakness. We need to do this for every aspect of the process . While our limitations will not completely dictated the spirit of the story, you need to be aware of it so you don’t screw yourself … believe me it is really easy to craft a story that you didn’t realized relied on a critical element. It turns out that you have no way to do this element in a realist way with quality. Another example if we can’t rent enough lights. If this happens which it probably will, we can’t simulate daytime scenes … which will be a pain, because our only available time will be at night. We both have full time jobs that need us right now. Even though we are only doing a low budget film, we can’t use a screen play from someone else. I bet this has similarities to real movies. Even the blockbuster films like Spiderman or LOTRS had real world constraints that affected the film. Although in this case the decisions for real films as more to do with self imposed limitations, than RL ones, on the creative direction. </Tangent2> <Tangent Last one promise> Here is a GREAT video that shows the stupidly of Hollywood … assuming you believe Kevin Smiths Story. Kevin Smith about talk Superman </Shut the F@#$ up already …> In any case I have also talked to Eralstion about this kind of stuff, so if you want more of my opinions just ask him. All in all I will be there if you want more opinions … like you need more. ;) |
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May 7 2006, 04:47 AM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 225 Joined: 1-November 05 Member No.: 7,917 |
Yeah, anyone reading this would appreciate some of the stuff in that Kevin Smith clip
This thread may end soon, I think we're going to move into a sprint developing an outline. We'll start another thread to intro that and pull it apart |
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May 7 2006, 05:07 AM
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#84
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Well I disagree about a screen play just being an idea. As for trying to get the rights to an SR movie... it would probably be in a the 100 grand range to secure. And no production company will even talk to you if you don't have the rights.
Writing the best screen play possible, with the best story and compelling characters is the way I chose to go. If WK never reads it, fine. But I have written it. I said in the beginning, we are not making a movie, we're writing a screen play. |
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May 7 2006, 05:17 AM
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#85
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
There's one example of a dumbass with a bunch of executives to ball-less to stand up to him, rather than "everyone in Hollywood is stupid." Which sounds like the mean for Hollywood.
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May 7 2006, 06:04 AM
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#86
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
This movie definitely needs a giant spider.
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May 8 2006, 12:29 AM
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#87
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
The fiercest predator in the Awakened kingdom.
And is Hollywood full of crazy/stupid people, or is it just full of a bunch of executives and artists afraid of a few powerful crazy, stupid people? |
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May 8 2006, 03:45 AM
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#88
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
The entire world is full of crazy/stupid people. The ones that make it big in Hollywood are the ones that get a chance to show the world that their craziness/stupidity is the same as everyone else's.
For example: we all (at least us crazy/stupids) know that robots and spiders are amazingly awesome (to steal from your vocabulary, and mine as a kid). Therefor, anyone with the stones to put a giant robotic spider in a movie about the Wild Wild West is obviously a creative genius. :D |
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May 8 2006, 06:16 PM
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#89
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 164 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Madison, Wi Member No.: 521 |
My apologies Shadow for minimizing the role of a screenplay. I come from a different media that has some basic similarities. In my experience while the initial design is crucial, it changes completely by the time all is done.
I am just looking ahead from my own POV, which ultimately has nothing to do with you. |
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May 8 2006, 08:00 PM
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#90
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Well you are probably used to working ona project from the beginign to the end. Screen writing is different. The writers have control of only the screenplay (there are rare exceptions). Once it is purchased it is in the domain of the director. There are a few writer/directors but they are rare.
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