SR MMO, what edition would you want?

SR MMO, what edition would you want?

What edition?
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Valentinew

May 1 2006, 04:24 PM

Post #26

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Thanee)

Never bothered writing down a concept documentation, though, since it is so damn unlikely to ever happen to be of any use. :D

According to Greypawn, Microsoft showed interest at E3 & they actually entered preliminary talks...before the FPS for X-box took center stage. Now it's likely that MS interest in a SR MMO hinges on the success of the FPS... :P

Thanee View Member Profile	May 1 2006, 04:38 PM Post #27
jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,006 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463	It's not really that I'm thinking there will never be a SR MMORPG, it's just a matter of time, especially now with the huge influx, but my notes in particular would prolly be of limited use then. ;) Bye Thanee

eidolon

May 2 2006, 01:02 AM

Post #28

ghostrider

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QUOTE (Brontal)

1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world .

Perhaps you could work on that whole suspension of disbelief thing. I'm constantly amazed that people take the "if they hadn't changed it it wouldn't have made any sense" track, as if everything had made "sense" in the first place. Why couldn't the SR world have developed differently than our own? (Ignore, for purposes of my rhetorical question, the fact that it did.)

Do you have problems playing D&D because there aren't wireless computers every five feet?

And before you respond that when you play D&D, you don't expect there to be, let me just pre-answer: exactly.

Shrike30 View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 01:18 AM Post #29
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98	You give me the ability in an MMO to slip onto a rooftop with a high-caliber rifle and wait for one of my enemies to go walking on by, or to go roping down the side of a building/elevator shaft, and I'll be a happy guy.

James McMurray View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 01:41 AM Post #30
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	D&D is not set in our future, with a technological curve that starts where ours left off in the 80s. If it were then I would definitely want there to be wireless access points all over the place.

Kanada Ten

May 2 2006, 01:45 AM

Post #31

Beetle Eater

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QUOTE (eidolon @ May 1 2006, 08:02 PM)

Do you have problems playing D&D because there aren't wireless computers every five feet?

And before you respond that when you play D&D, you don't expect there to be, let me just pre-answer: exactly.

Yeah, but that doesn't prevent D&D from adding more historical items as they are discovered or translated into the game. Back in the day, we had lots of D&D sourcebooks coming out with new gear and gear from different regions - even time periods.

I'd use the SR4 world because it's more fun than the SR3 world.

Kagetenshi

May 2 2006, 02:14 AM

Post #32

Manus Celer Dei

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QUOTE (James McMurray)

D&D is not set in our future

Neither is Shadowrun. Or did you miss that Warren Burger held out for nearly a decade longer in SR than in real life?

~J

James McMurray View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 02:33 AM Post #33
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	It's set in our technological future, with the vast majority of it's past being the same as ours. That's close enough for me.

eralston View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 02:42 AM Post #34
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 225 Joined: 1-November 05 Member No.: 7,917	Why do you guys focus on this wireless thing? Did you ever read Matrix? There were rules for RF links (wireless technology is just standardized radio). They sucked in comparison to sat links too because sat links would halt trace attempts at the sattelite (utterly decimating my GM's cliche attempts at tracking us).

Wounded Ronin

May 2 2006, 03:03 AM

Post #35

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Brontal)

1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world .
Now, in the year 2006, even my mom is using w-lan to acces the internet. An outdated science fiction world , like SR 3 , is simply not believable .

I'm of the opinion that SR is an 80s game. I like the retro-80s tech feel of SR2 and SR3. It was the 80s jive that attracted me to SR in the first place many years ago.

hyzmarca

May 2 2006, 03:05 AM

Post #36

Midnight Toker

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QUOTE (James McMurray)

D&D is not set in our future, with a technological curve that starts where ours left off in the 80s. If it were then I would definitely want there to be wireless access points all over the place.

Says who? There are such things as technology destroying apocoli.

Kanada Ten View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 03:08 AM Post #37
Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826	Bah, it's more 80s than ever. AR Gloves, Miracle Shooter is just Duck Hunt, escapist culture under a fascist government. Look at the cover of SR4: 1 ninja, guy in pink sunglasses and matching shorts, jammer pants, giant rats, and oppressive asian influence. Technomancers are just DARYL. .

GreyPawn View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 04:00 AM Post #38
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-December 04 Member No.: 6,890	Third edition setting and physics, with select elements of the 4th.

ChuckRozool

May 2 2006, 06:06 AM

Post #39

Moving Target

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QUOTE (KarmaInferno)

The disdain is because many folks here are justifiably of the opinion that any MMO could not possibly maintain the serious, grim 'n gritty atmosphere essential to the Shadowrun genre.

I would have to disagree. Now I might catch some flak just for mentioning Guild Wars but, the way they handle missions and such might work well for something like Shadowrun. What I mean is, you have hubs where the players can meet and form groups, instead of a city or outpost like in Guild Wars you can make them clubs or even a few blocks of whatever district you're in (that way you can have shops and stuff...). Then you instance the missions, or anything outside the hubs.

As far as skills and combat and stuff, I'd try to keep it as close to the actuall PnP rules set. If possible just code the mechanics of the PnP game straight to the MMO game. much like KotOR did with the D20 system.

As far as what system, I'd say SR4 for tie in sales of the PnP game. That and it would be fairly easy for newer people to pickup on the mechanics. As far as the setting, well that would have to be 2060.

But that's just my opinion, and everyone knows that's an entirely different kind of flying altogether...

Brontal

May 2 2006, 11:24 AM

Post #40

Target

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That is a very good question eidolon and i will try to be as exact as possible.
:rotate:

The D&D setting is based on an not very exact defined medieval timeframe without the aim to reflect the medieval "realty" , for example the hygienical situation of that time .
The roots of the main aspects of the game are based on fiction / fantasy / fairy tales .... . the evil wizzard, orks, dragons, magic, mysterious dungeons, elfes, a cursed wood, etc. .... without the purpose to reflect a "real" world .
So as long as you, or me, are willing to "dive" into this fary tale world it is believable because ( sorry since english is not my first language it is difficult to describe ) it is fantasy by default .

The setting of Shadowrun on the other side is based on the real world which I and you can see everyday when looking out of the window. It is a not to far fictional version of the future. It is using places, names and tools of the actual happening real world. If I had the money and the time I could jump into the next plane and visit the scenes described in the Shadowrun books. I can goggle for "Hecklar & Koch", "Krupp" or "Lone Star" and get results of now existing real companies .
So Shadowrun is basicly aiming to reflect a fictional version of the real world with the addition of fantasy / fary tale elements.

QUOTE

1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world .

Because the reality Shadowrun is reflecting moved ahead of the presented fiction in the game . (I hope that sounds understandable)

I hope that I could make my point of view clear, if not feel free to ask me.

@Valentinew
I think this is not the right place or the right topic to discuss what i do not like about the SRO project. I will send you a private message as soon as i find the time.

KarmaInferno

May 2 2006, 01:56 PM

Post #41

Old Man Jones

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QUOTE (ChuckRozool)

QUOTE (KarmaInferno)

The disdain is because many folks here are justifiably of the opinion that any MMO could not possibly maintain the serious, grim 'n gritty atmosphere essential to the Shadowrun genre.

I would have to disagree. Now I might catch some flak just for mentioning Guild Wars but, the way they handle missions and such might work well for something like Shadowrun. What I mean is, you have hubs where the players can meet and form groups, instead of a city or outpost like in Guild Wars you can make them clubs or even a few blocks of whatever district you're in (that way you can have shops and stuff...). Then you instance the missions, or anything outside the hubs.

I was referring, actually, to the playerbase, not anything the developers might try to create.

For every serious player, there will be ten player that don't give a damn about the setting or how the world is supposed to be, and will go around with stupid names screaming leetspeak and generally breaking immersion in the worst way possible.

"ZOMG I H4VE CLAWWS I R WULVEREEEN!!!one!"

ugh.

A squad-sized online game, sure. An MMO? Not unless they can somehow institute intelligence checks before you can get in.

-karma

elitist

Lindt View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 03:14 PM Post #42
Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105	Here is the problem. SR is such an emmently leathal setting, where Joe Wageslave with his Glock can flatout kill a hardened runner by blindly fireing. It would make for a lousy setting where a NPC can easly one shot kill you. Never mind the fact that SR dosent easly support ressurecting that well at all. And never mind the fact that you would almost need to have a PvP element, which would consist of one asshat sitting on a roof top a mile away with a barret and his mage buddy running cover.

eralston View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 03:23 PM Post #43
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 225 Joined: 1-November 05 Member No.: 7,917	I'm sure someone will come along and remind you that such comments are useless in this thread, because wanting an MMO is prerequisite to wanting an edition for the MMO, but... Obviously the MMO would have to present tweaked mechanics to preserve characters. You can sure bet that the SR game for 360 isn't going to let players die over one lucky shot on the part of joe wageslave. Furthmore, I'm willing to bet that the 360 game will not feature abuse of the extreme range of some weapons being kilometers. If the whole game comes down to you pissing someone off and them spraying you down from ten blocks away with an HMG, that's not entertainment even in the PnP game. Foremost on my mind, and the number one complaint I would bring up, would be that MMOs have a tendency to never offer long-term storytelling elements and all you do comes down to finding a job then squishing a monster or (worse) delivering something to someone. True, it will have to support the 20 minutes at a time casual types, but something meangingful could be accomplished in a game in an hour's play. But then, how would you counterbalance that so everyone on a team gets their fair share of face time? It's a quandry

Platinum View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 05:11 PM Post #44
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115	What I don't seem to follow is why people think that if you are running an MMO, you would use all of the game mechanics. That just would not happen. MMO's use complex lighting and physics engines. Bullets will arc, etc. If there is a MMo it will use the genre and feel of the game but overlayed on a much more complex system. Can you imagine people playing this? I would be glued online till I had like 10 million karma pool. Muahaha ... and I can survive nuke blasts. The karma pool mechanic could be a neat feature, but it would have to be something that you employ before you attempt something.

Valentinew View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 05:22 PM Post #45
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 207 Joined: 3-November 05 From: KCMO Member No.: 7,922	Has anyone here played DDO? I ask because it's advertised as being the PnP put online & I'm curious as to how successful the game is...what I saw of it didn't impress me, but that was months before it's release. I am not expecting any MMO to mirror the PnP game, any more than the Sega game mirrored it. What I do expect is to retain the flavor & storyline of SR.

James McMurray

May 2 2006, 05:40 PM

Post #46

Great Dragon

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Here's what a guy at another board said about DDO. I've never played it (or even seen it played) so I can't verify anything.

QUOTE

DDO is TEH SUXX0RZ>. Here are my reasons why I say that (find a comfy seat, it's a long and bumpy ride):

Utterly unfaithful to the chosen Setting, "Eberron":

Omitted Artificer class, and references thereto;
Omitted Shifter race, and references thereto;
Omitted Changeling race, and references thereto;
Omitted NINE of the thirteen Dragonmarked Houses, and references thereto;
Failed to implement any Dragonmark feats whatsoever;
Failed to include even reference to the Pantheons of Eberron;
Fails to equip newcomers with even the most basic and trivial of understanding about the setting - like, especially, the fact that Stormreach is the ONLY city on the continent of Xen'drik ...!
Utterly and inexcusably gimped Warforged (all their _immunities_ were turned into modest _save bonusses_, yet, they retain all the _disadvantages_ ...)

Unacceptibly unfaithful to the 3.5e rules, despite promises to the contrary:

Omitted Druids entirely (cited reason is problems balancing their Animal Companion)
Poorly implements Rangers (the game NEVER calls upon their woodcraft skills - there's NO tracking, hardly any option to use Wild Empathy, etc. Oh, and no animal companion for them, either)
Poorly implemented Sorcerors (using 3.0 rules ... NO swapping of spells at 4th, 6th, etc levels)
Omitted Monks entirely (cited reason is difficulty balancing and animating unarmed attacks - yet, everyone DOES get unarmed strikes, anyway!)
Needlessly altered level-progression tables (i.e., Barbarians start gettign DR at level TWO instead of 7 ... and are at 3/- by leel eight!)
NPCs/"mobs" fail to adhere to anything even CLOSE to the established CR rules (CR 3 Kobold Shamans were spamming away with Bestow Curse until recently, for example ... in LEvel 2 adventures!)
Utterly gimped archery (attack rate does not increase with BAB, even though it DOES so for melee weapons)
Needlessly omitted many spells (i.e. Color Spray ... even though all the effects ARE in game, the spell ISN'T)
Incomplete implementation of Clerics (no Domains. At all. Period.)
Hyper-scaled spellcasting (double Spell Points for everyone)
Spontaneous spellcasting for everyone (devaluing Sorcerors)
Unequal spellcasting (sorcerors cast spells FASTER than wizards)
Unequal spell-list application (some spells are "find only", and there is NO way for Sorcerors to learn them ... "Wizard's Only Club", here we come)
Absence of "touch AC" in any form
"Trip" attacks are AOE ...!
Inexcusably sparse range of possible enemies (no goblins, no orcs, only animals AFAIK are wolves and similar ... for starters)
inaccurately implemented class features (i.e., my 5th level, Charisma 16 human Paladin could lay on hands for FOURTY-FIVE points, not the expected fifteen ... and it's "all at once", not broken up across multiple uses.)
"Enhancements" gained via Action Points (a "sub-Level advancement" mechanic) often either trivialise or over-emphasise certain class features. (i.e., that paladin of mine? he could Lay on Hands for 45hp .... twice per rest! flipside, a Fighter(10) can get "fighter's action boost", and gain +10 to attacks several times per rest ... and NPC armor classes are scaled to assume the fighters HAVE it and USE it, leaving everyone else out in the cold!)

Poorly conceived game interface:

Game play is "FPS-like" ... a.k.a. "twitch gaming" (instead of Touch AC, you MANUALLY dodge - regardless of your character's DEX score or armor worn, it's your REAL, physical ability to send well-timed movement commands to the server that determines if touch or ranged-touch attacks connect!)
Completely nonrandomised quest layout (once you've done a quest with one character, odds are you remember where EVERYthing is when you play it with ANOTHER character)
Inexcusable lack of playable content (only 120-ish quests in-game at Launch; up to about 140 now, with the highly-bugged launch of Module I yesterday)
Non-scaling quests (enter with one person or six, it's the samemobs ahead of you, period, no exceptions)
Absolute total and utter lack of soloable content (who else here remembers the modules like "Cleric's Challenge" or "Fighter's Challenge II" ...?)
due to lack of Soloable content ... UTTER reliance on others for quality of play experience (if you play at odd times, and aren't a member of an established guild from outside DDO, the odds are you won't have a lot of good grouping experiences in DDO - trust me, I speak from experience here).

Kagetenshi

May 2 2006, 06:03 PM

Post #47

Manus Celer Dei

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QUOTE (James McMurray)

Poorly implemented Sorcerors (using 3.0 rules ... NO swapping of spells at 4th, 6th, etc levels)
Spontaneous spellcasting for everyone (devaluing Sorcerors)
Unequal spell-list application (some spells are "find only", and there is NO way for Sorcerors to learn them ... "Wizard's Only Club", here we come)

I must play this game. Or at least send the developers some money.

~J, possessed of an inordinate loathing of sorcerers

James McMurray View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 06:04 PM Post #48
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	Is the loathing a personal preference thing because you prefer people to memorize spells or something else?

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 06:13 PM Post #49
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	A few reasons. Part of it is that I find the idea of wide-scale innate magical talent in humans (within the context of D&D) to be offensive—I've never liked the memorization system, but I like even less the departure from it while it's left in the game. More importantly, though, the class system (which has always been a bit of a stretch) makes absolutely no sense for them—they have innate magical talent, it isn't something they study at. As a result, there's no reason that I've found why a sorcerer spent all that time somehow learning to be a sorcerer rather than, say, another class. I will admit that my personal preferences with regards to D&D are unusually stringent—this is the result of my realization several years ago that it would never be the game I wanted to play most of the time, so I settled on it being the game I wanted to play when I wanted a particular kind of experience. As a result, anything deviating from that experience (like all of 3.0/3.5 and several things about 2e) is likely to provoke disfavour in me. ~J

James McMurray View Member Profile	May 2 2006, 06:34 PM Post #50
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957	Cool. I completely disagree with you on the sorcerer issue, but this isn't a D&D board so I'll just leave it at that. :)

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