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 SR 4 Weapons Questions |
 May 1 2006, 07:50 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 20-April 06 From: La Islas de Republica de Bananas (Philippines) Member No.: 8,488  |
:spin: I can't believe you said that. How do you explain my mother who really likes ventilating things with her .357? Considering the fact that she is almost 70. |
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May 1 2006, 07:52 PM
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#27
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
maybe age is starting to affect her hormones?
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May 1 2006, 07:54 PM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 20-April 06 From: La Islas de Republica de Bananas (Philippines) Member No.: 8,488 |
Hmmm ... point. |
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May 1 2006, 08:53 PM
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#29
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I was referring to the picture which compared the 7,62mm NATO to the 15,2mm of this austrian rifle. I can't remember where i read it, but 25mm caliber might be next :D. |
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May 1 2006, 09:05 PM
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#30
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
and at that point one may well go spinstabelized rockets...
warhammer 40k anyone? |
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May 1 2006, 09:07 PM
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#31
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
25x59Bmm in the Barrett Payload Rifle/XM109, firing rounds such as the XM1049 HEDP. I couldn't find a picture of such a 25mm cartridge with anything to give you scale, but it's just a bit shorter than a .50 BMG cartridge with a projectile nearly twice the diameter and around 3x the mass. The 15.2mm Steyr gets quite a bit more velocity at the muzzle, though...
[Edit]Heh, Dumpshock Forums is right up there with Defense Review when you Google for the specs of the 25x59Bmm cartridge.[/Edit] |
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May 1 2006, 09:22 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
25mm is next. There is a 25mm "sniper rifle" in development. However, I'm not sure if it's really what you would call a rifle round. It's more like the OCSW (M-307) round, but with more powder behind it to reach out to the 2-3km range.
Still, at that size, you're talking more about "flat-trajectory grenade" than "AP penetrator" a la a Bushmaster. If you had to convert it to SR4 I'd call it a GL operating at MG or cannon ranges. We should have a contest--see who can guess the eventual stats of the Barrett when it shows up in the next SB. [edit]I stand corrected. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...d/m109-ampr.htm It *is* the M-307 ammo. Only the form factor (MGL to sniper "rifle") is different from the M-307. You *might* get a little more range from the barrell, not sure. At any rate, it's not going to get you hard kills at 3-4km like a .50 can, and won't replace all .50 rifles. [/edit] |
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May 1 2006, 09:38 PM
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#33
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
... define "hard kills." That's a term I've not heard before.
Hobgoblin: remember the Ex-Explosive Gyrojet rounds from 3rd ed? Slap those in a 30 round sickle mag, give the weapon a 4 round burst mode, and you've got yourself a bolter... |
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May 1 2006, 10:26 PM
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#34
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
As far as I know, the longest range affirmed sniper kill is still 2430 meters. There's no reason why the XM109 would not be capable of that, considering that with high explosive ammunition it can achieve a kill even without a direct hit. A bolt action .50 BMG will be more accurate than a semi-auto 25x59Bmm, no doubt about that. And it definitely will not replace all .50 rifles any time soon, seeing as how the DoD is still buying in M107s while the XM109 is still an X. :)
The Payload Rifle is built around the XM1049 HEDP instead of the XM1019 HEAB for the OCSW, but that is kind of part of the difference between an AGL and an anti-material rifle. This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: May 1 2006, 10:29 PM |
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May 1 2006, 11:16 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
ISTR that a Canuck scored at over 3km in Afghanistan a while back...
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May 1 2006, 11:21 PM
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#36
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ugh, should have recalled. maybe there is a reason why i never opend cannon companion much... so, whos up for converting a anthroform into terminator armor? |
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May 1 2006, 11:25 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 19-January 04 Member No.: 5,992 |
Something to consider in SR terms: The maximum sniping distance, not to mention angles in this day and age, is likely straight out the Fscking roof. Given that it's not unreasonable to assume that a sniper of all people would be wared out the gills with all sorts of fun trajectory bits, not to mention spotters and so on?
Well. I figure that the really good Gubmint snipers, at least in SR, would be capable of the occasional Gunbound-style shot, in which they just let terminal falling velocity do all the heavy lifting as they shoot in a parabolic arc. And in case it's not clear from the previous, I have bupkis knowledge of physics, firearms, software, or even math beyond trig. I'm pulling this all out of a non-mouth orifice. Speaking of experimentals, when's the OICW gonna show up? |
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May 1 2006, 11:28 PM
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#38
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Never. Been shelved a few years now.
[Edit]More precisely, the XM29 OICW was shelved in 2004 until such a time that the sub-projects XM8 and XM25 would be sufficiently developed. Late last year, the XM8 project was suspended. AFAIK, the XM25 is still being developed, but the track record for OICW-related projects is not too good...[/Edit] |
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May 1 2006, 11:43 PM
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#39
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I think the shot AE is talking about (2.43 k) is the one you're thinking about. If there's been one beyond 3k, I haven't heard about it, and the 2.43k one was a Canadian sniper in Afghanistan... |
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May 2 2006, 01:51 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 |
Y'know, I just watched an episode of Mythbusters yesterday about this very topic. Apparently, the experimental data the team came up with indicated that a person could not die from a falling bullet. Though it would obviously hurt quite a bit, it may not even break the skin. On the other side of the issue in the same episode, some doctor was claiming that people do, in fact, die from it. What's the truth? Who knows? The general consensus seemed to indicate that a bullet falling at terminal velocity straight down (or close enough to it, affected only by the wind) was not lethal, or even particularly damaging (the weight and speed, combined with the fact that it falls sideways, etc.). However, a bullet that maintains its ballistic trajectory over a high elevation may retain enough speed to kill someone. Nevertheless, I doubt the Gummint would rely on such tactics if the outcome wasn't reasonably certain. Might as well use a missile or a goddamned artillery cannon at those ranges. OPERATION: NITPICK COMPLETE :: RETURNING TO BASE |
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May 2 2006, 02:04 AM
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#41
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, some new episode or just a offshot of the falling penny myth?
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May 2 2006, 02:05 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 |
New episode. |
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May 2 2006, 02:25 AM
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#43
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well, i hope to catch it some day then.
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May 2 2006, 01:26 PM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
Back in my old unit, the bradley crews used the term "hard kills" to describe anything more armored than a transport truck...and usually it was something taken out with a TOW instead of the 25mm. But I doubt Big D is using it in that way. I can't see a .50cal being able to kill something that the XM109 couldn't. But that's just the opinion of a grunt. 8-) |
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May 2 2006, 02:20 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
I meant by that a direct hit, as opposed to catching them in a 25mm grenade blast, which is slightly less challenging.
After considerable searching, I can't find any reference to a 3km+ shot, so it must be a figment of my imagination. |
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May 2 2006, 05:15 PM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
That's a definition I can work with. Kind of useful, too... |
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May 2 2006, 05:41 PM
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#47
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
It would be, only the term is already used for something else. "Soft-kill" in military-related discussion usually means fooling the target through ECM, smoke, flares, IR and laser jamming, etc., while "hard-kill" means destroying/neutralizing a target, whether with KE, HE or other munitions.
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May 2 2006, 06:00 PM
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#48
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
That makes even more sense. Of course, you get all kinds of "term-misuse" when you hang out with grunts.
[thread hijack]Speaking military terms, AE, how much army jargon overlap is there between english and your native tongue?[/thread hijack] |
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May 2 2006, 06:40 PM
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#49
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Not exactly SR-related, but...
I wouldn't really know. 9-month conscripts don't get subjected to the more serious military parlance, and I'm not too familiar with English grunt-speak. I've got a feeling there has traditionally been little if any overlap because the strongest foreign influence on Finnish military life is from Sweden. Lately, however, it has become more common to loan words directly from English (or whatever language a new technological breakthrough is made in) -- for example, mil.fi refers to "OCSW", "HPM/High Powered Microwave" munitions, etc. Most people read about this stuff in English, and the terminology sneaks into their native language when people can't be bothered to come up with new words. |
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May 2 2006, 06:49 PM
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#50
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Target Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 12-January 05 From: Brazil, RN, Natal (Also known as Amazonia) Member No.: 6,968 |
Well, I donīt know. About ten years ago, in São Paulo, a night watcher in a construction site fired his .38 revolver to the sky, trying to scare away some bums that were sleeping at the place. The ballistic trajectory brought the projectile through a roof in a nearby house, and into a 9-year-old boy, almost severing his thumb in the process. He had some surgery, and ended OK. Itīs worth to remember, though, that the house had no concrete covering under the roof tiles. |
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