Non-magic/non-cyber characters, Do these ever happen? Options

[Phasma Felis]

How many people have played, or played in games with, characters who lack both magical ability and cyberware/bioware? The conventional wisdom seems to be that this is a quick path to uselessness, and there's only one character archetype like this in BBB3 (the Private Eye). But it would certainly be an interesting role-playing experience, if nothing else.

[TinkerGnome]

You can make this concept work. It all depends on what you're going to do with it. It isn't a horrible decker concept, actually (running through a trode net), though not quite as powerful as the alternative.

[Kanada Ten]

My second favorite character, and the longest living, was a wanna-be.
No cyber, no bio, no magic. I made him in second edition with C as magic (mundane) and B as race (Human). Gave him a million nuyen to buy a gang, their bikes, guns, ect. He was a blast, but only because the other PC's took to him (dragging them through the world on insane quests and all). For the right type of games, it works well. He died after using a detrimental and experimental combat drug.

[Kagetenshi]

There are a few ways to pull this off, as I see it:

1) Combat drugs, and lots of them.
2) Play a Face, as they really aren't very hampered by lack of cyber.
3) Role-play to the hilt.

Or some combination of the above.
I personally would end up giving non-cybered mundanes plenty of extra karma for sheer badass factor if they were played well enough.

~J

[Glyph]

A non-cybered character has to work harder, no doubt about it. And that's how it should be. Two of the main premises of the game are people with magical powers being alternately idolized and feared, and people with cyberware trading in their humanity in order to become stronger, faster, etc. A mundane character being just as tough would undermine that.

A completely mundane character, to be effective, should probably be at least part face - you don't have to max Charisma, but you should have lots and lots of contacts, with the Connected and Friends in High Places Edges. Then, if you want to be effective in combat, too, plan on playing someone who uses clever tactics, "equalizers" such as neurostun grenades, and sniping from hiding/long range. Also, have some useful skills to round out the group - B/R skills, etc. You won't be as good as someone with a CED: 6 or microscopic vision, but if it's a skill that the party otherwise lacks you will be contributing at least.

[Kurb]

Actually I've played a couple characters with no cyber and no magic, and I found it to be rather easy to be honest. Granted it is more difficult for the inexperience, but at the same time you can "roleplay" him/her much easier. Example I'm refering to is a sniper, which I saw someone mention something about it. Granted your target number won't have the -2 for smartlink or a -1 for laser sight, but you can get all the distant modifers at or close to 4 through the proper scope. Now to you a 4 may be to high a number to want to roll, well to me that's about as small as I see it. Not to mention a -1 for a target who is stationary. Which a lot of GM/Players forget about (well at least in my games). So that got me thinking, a target number of 2 (if the target is not moving, which most are not AND you have a mag-3 scope) at 700 meters away, IMO is pretty DAMN good. Not to mention the extended laser sights and all that. Plus as someone mention, its probably good to have high B/R skills. Anyway, just a thought I guess.

[Bearclaw]

How would you make a gang using 3rd ed rules? Just make 10 level 2 contacts and then equip them?

[Sunday_Gamer]

There was a fixer in one of my campaigns, went by the name of Virgin. He was completely mundane and was afflicted with a bio-rejection that prevented him getting any cyberware or bioware. He got by on his social skills and buttloads of contacts.

I wouldn't recommend it for casual play.

Sunday

[Large Mike]

With some experience under the belt of the player, it's no different, really. When it gets right down to it, Shadowrun is a game of intelligence, rather than stats (or should be, imnsho)

[Kanada Ten]

[Bearclaw]

OK, so I'm making a guy.
I gave him Leadership 4 and small unit tactics 4, and level 2 good rep as well as the usuall. He's got 1 mil, which I've used to buy his gear, and 11 level 2 contacts.
I'll get a hideout, and pay for it as 12 low life styles.
Then, I'll make my 11 gangers.
I'm figuring 100 points. Does that sound right, or should it be less?

PS, what is SSG?

[Kanada Ten]

As to points (I assume you mean for building them per CharGen?), I would think the GM would have to make them, but otherwise: You need a background for the gang first, which will decide on age, area, skills, ect. Who's backing you backing the gang? Where did you recruit? Are you the latest in a succession? What is the glue of the gang, what's the gimmick, what to they do for profit, fun? Who's the enemies? Are they a Go-Go gang, do they have turf? Ect.

I'd say don't use points for them, no awakened members, average attribute points (18, IIRC), and 24 skill points. Remember, the gangers look to you as a leader, but they are also your competition. They'll be friends, but not necessarily easy to control.

Which is why you might want to buy drugs for them, lots of drugs.

Sprawl Survival Guide, the newest book from FanPro.

[Nephyte]

I don't know if this carried over from SR2 or not, or even if it was in SR2, but I believe back then a gang was considered a level 3 contact. Aka a flat out 200K payment.

I'll start checking out the SRC and BBB for more information after I hit this post button.

[Bearclaw]

I know that's how it was, but they seem to have dropped it.

[last_of_the_grea...]

I've ofton thought it would be fun to play a runner au naturale, lacking both cyber and magic, but still on a level. If you wanted to play a combat capable character I came up with the idea of a Paragon (name taken from a suggestion in another thread). Basically, it costs priority B or 15 points if you use the point build system in the Companion. The gain is this:

6 extra attribute points which can be used to start beyond the normal starting maximum, but not higher than the racial maximum (A human could start with a 9 for instance). Also points of edges are gained and the character must accept the bio rejection flaw in exchange. 6 additional edge points are gained for free.

I chose 6 points because the whole system is based off the number 6 and it worked allright. The PC that tried it made a pretty dangerous Ork. Predictably, he maxed out his Quickness and Intelligence attributes, using 2 of his edge points to make his intelligence maximum higher. He wasn't as fast as the average sammie with wired reflexes2, but his bigger combat pool made up for a lot. This may not be for everyone, but it was fun.

[Kagetenshi]

Not really sure I like the idea of compensating for the flaws of a non-magic, non-cyber character. Flaws are there to make a character interesting.

~J

[Bira]

[Veracusse]

One of my best players played a human au natural, no cyber/bio nor magic. He was the teams B&E and Surveillance speacialist. He had average attributes, high skills and high resources. He had all the neat survaillance and security countermeasures that a character would ever need. He was quite usefull to the team, but IC one of the other players mentioned that he was nervous about brining someone onto the team that might be lacking in the technology department, i.e. no cyber.

The interesting thing this was his first time ever playing shadowrun, and he had only been roleplaying for a year and a half total. Yet he went out and bought his own books came up with his char concept on his own, and is a damn good roleplayer, especially for shadowrun.

So it can be done with a really good roleplayer.

Veracusse

[thunderchild]

Deep 6 - mundane samurai/face

my best ever mundane

[Dragoonkin]

My first character was sort-of mundane/un-cybered...all he had was a Smartlink.

But then, I've never really "gotten into" having lots of cyberware and even these days I cringe at the thought of losing a point and a half of Essence for anything.

[Kagetenshi]

You've obviously never played a Rigger.
You thought Streetsams had low essences... :D

~J

[Dragoonkin]

Well, I've had two characters really...the one I went into already, and a combo Rigger/Decker...now that's an Essence hole. Pained me every step of character creation. :eek:

[Bölverk]

My current character is of this sort. Bio-rejection, level 4 magic resistance, simsense vertigo (which means he can't use 'trodes very well either), bad (not cursed) karma, and level 2 gremlins (the "Back to the Future" one). Basically, he's screwed. :) On the plus side, he is perceptive, has a friendly face, and is a quick healer.

He's human, as befits someone so utterly mundane.

Being a mundane human with lots of flaws gives lots of build points. Character creation involved very high attributes (28 or 29 points), remarkably high resources (400k :nuyen: ?), and enough points left for a wide range of skills. He blew a large fraction of his starting nuyen on a massively customized set of layered armor to keep himself alive: full-quality ruthenium on the longcoat, various amounts of electrical, chemical, and fire protection, and thermal dampening.

His weapon of choice is grenades (usually only one action per round - make the most of it!), though he has smartglasses and a couple of pistols.

No speed enhancements at all (cyber is forbidden, magic resistance prevents beneficial spells, and he refuses to use drugs.)

He has a lot of different skills - he does have fairly high street etiquette skill and a number of contacts, but he's no Face. His main focus is the technical stuff - chemistry, mechanical engineering, electronics and electronics B/R, demolitions, etc.

The guy has been fun to play (especially the incessant Gremlins rolling), though I'm still working on characterization. He's been fairly effective in the limited combat we've had so far, and the numerous technical and B/R skills have made him a useful part of the team.

[Jpwoo]

Two of my favorite characters ever were both mundanes.

Harry the ex-docwagon door gunner. He was in a large group so that helped him greatly. He served as a medic and a free safety essentially. Waiting to see what went wrong with the run, and then taking steps to correct this. Since runs always go wrong it was nice to build some wiggle room right into the plan and his skill set let him do almost anything. His street contract were great as well.

Ajax the Orc detective. He was a traditional face. His claim to fame was that he had more dead contacts then any of the other runners had contacts period. He eventually ended up getting some bioware, so he doesn't fit the pure mundane category completely but close enough.

Things to remember when playing a mundane:

1. A held action is the fastest thing in the game. Hold your action early and often. You don't get to go four times in a round so what you do has to count. Bide your time until you get a great shot rather than pulling the trigger on an ok shot like you would with a street sam.

2. You can do many things that awakened and cybered characters cannot. A troll stuffed with cyber is going to set off metal detectors or scanner junk like crazy, and the same goes for a mage with spell locks and elementals swarming him, he is watcher bait. The mundane character has a great freedom of movement in this regard.

If you are even thinking about playing a mundane then my guess is that you are probably a pretty good role player. So pick up as many contacts as you can and use them. This is actually nice because the people who aren't as into role playing get to step into the combat/magic monster roles and feel involved and you still get your 15 minutes of fame.

Something that struck me as interesting is that most of the mundane builds here seem to focus on taking resources high. I say go high skills and high attributes. The money will come.

[Ulfgeir]