SR PnP rules in an SR Video Game? Options

[eralston]

In the SR MMO discussion we broke down into a debate about the problems with DDO. I don't know how long-lived that discussion will be, but I think most of its fury can be diverted here.

How important are the established rules of a PnP game when making a video game adaptation of it? (Specific to an RPG version where such a concept is applicable, obvious SR as an FPS has almost no use for the established rules).

Is necessary to make sure it is actually Shadowrun (or D&D, or Exalted, or...)

OR

Is it really just futile. Will everyone just complain about your holes and you'll ultimately fail to satisfy to the point of it hindering the final product?

OR

Are the rules not necessary as long as you have a workable set of rules? Is the experience of SR completely decoupled from its game mechanics?

[ShadowDragon8685]

Making it as a turn-based game would be all but impossible. Some douche would inevitably go AFK or something in the middle of his turn, leaving his opponants stranded.

Then that brings us to the question of reaction enhancers. If we stick with the three-second turn, cybersammies and PhysAds will be moving far faster than their meatbag players can keep up.

Ultimately, I dunno, I leave it up to you to decide what to do. :)

[Kagetenshi]

Depends on the game. I plan on at some point making a (totally unofficial, zero-distribution) small single-player Shadowrun game using the SR3 mechanics in their entirety, but I wouldn't, for example, try that for an MM"RP"G or a first-person shooter.

Edit: ShadowDragon brings up a good point! I would not attempt to reproduce turn-based combat.

~J

[James McMurray]

Turnbased combat is only good in a solo game where it's ok to get up and go to the toilet. You could institute a timer and perhaps some default actions for when the timer runs out, but that would be more than it's worth. But I don't think the original poster was trying to suggest making it turn based.

Other than turns, I think it should stay as true to the actual mechanics as feasibly possible. It makes it faster for old SR players to pick the game up, and faster for new SRMMO players to pick up the PnP version. You'd also lose a lot of players if you opted to go the WoW or DDO mechanics route.

[bustedkarma]

[Wounded Ronin]

I think a turn based clock would be OK. I once played on some SR MUD but it annoyed me because chargen wasn't cannon.

I dunno, I like t3h r34l rules so I can really play Shadowrun.

[Brontal]

Dark age of camelot, World of warcraft, Lineage 2 ..... the list goes on .... are all turn based games

[James McMurray]

[Aku]

i donno, it would be nice to have the rules mostly intact, and obviously core concepts there, but you'd obviously have to make some sort of adjustments (like making it real time, somehow, without resorting to a twitch factor being involved)

[bustedkarma]

[Trax]

Would that be exactly what SR would be like in life though? Someone with fast reflexes would naturally do more actions than someone with slower reflexes. Or are people seriously trying to make it more like Final Fantasy for combat turns?

The problem with translating the rules of a pnp into a video game is that not everything is going to translate very well, so it's all mostly modifications. Just like Vampire: Bloodlines is based on the WoD rules, but not completely.

[James McMurray]

[eralston]

I dislike pure turn-based RPers. Anyone under the idea that I wanted a stop-and-go turn-based system misread something and thanks to those who already clarified.

To preserve the rules, pseudo-turn-based would probably be the order of the day (such as in NWN, KOTOR, etc). Pure live action would probably poorly represent enhanced reflex rules and present other balance issues.

The only real quandry would be the SR3 concept of pools in a pseudo-turned-based environment. Sure you could have players set rules on their expenditure, but it wouldn't represent the mechanics in high fidelity. SR4 would probably be easier to straight port in this respect.

[ronin3338]

[Shrike30]

Things like wired reflexes wouldn't be too hard to do.

Neverwinter Nights was "turn based," if you looked at the mechanics. A "turn" was 5 (or something) real-time seconds, during which whatever actions you were doing that turn were executed.

A direct translation of SR over to an MMO might have issues in terms of some people going really disturbingly fast, so you'd have to work out how long a "turn" is, but you could still make it so that people with wired reflexes or whatever go 2, 3, or 4x as often as the normal crowd of people. If a "turn" is converted over to 10 realtime seconds, an unaugmented person might get off one spell or 2 rounds of ammo every 10 seconds. Each level of reflex augmentation they get shortens their "turn length" down, to 5 seconds, 3.3, or 2.5...

Putting the core mechanic into something that handles like WoW or, say, Planetside isn't going to be the hard part. The hard part will be determining if the core mechanic is at ALL fun in the video game you end up producing. I'm personally a fan of taking it as guidance, and putting together a really solid game independent of the core rules, but that an experienced PnP player could jump into, get himself some ware and abilities, and say "Yeah, this performs like I thought it should."

[James McMurray]

[Taran]

Ironically enough, yes. In an MMO the tactical decisions come from other sources, so you don't need pools the way the PnP game does.

[Lindt]

Im going to be honest. The chances of SRO making me happy are slim to none.
Look at how damage works. And people die, forever. Plus it would all devolve into a massive Emo Samuari scale power game anyway.

[Shrike30]

They'd figure out some sort of cloning thing, or have DocWagon come to pick up bodies a while after a fight and you get out of the hospital, or something odd like that. Hell, maybe nanotech that keeps you "barely alive" until you can be revived. It's all doable, just not very gritty :P

[hyzmarca]

Using SR4 rules in a video game isn't the best of idea. Neither is using SR3 rules in a video game - or SR2 rules or AD&D rules or D&D3.5 rules or ny P&P game rules.

P&P games are designed to be played on pen and paper, it is an infinitly flexible but there is not much room for fidelity due to the effort it takes for players and GMs to keep track of things. Video games are absolutly rigid but have room for a great deal to fidelity due to the speed at which a computer can make calculations.

A SR video game should have much more detailed rules that cover a much larger range of possibilities with much greater percision.

[mfb]

[eidolon]

If a video game is done correctly, shouldn't the rules be transparent anyway?

Also, hyz, do you really think the d20 rules are flexible? If you take them to their furthest extent, you already get VGoP. Flexibility is something you have to put into some of the systems out there.

[James McMurray]

That's the second time I've seen "VGoP." I'm guessing "video game on paper?" If so, then all I can say is that you get that effect when you go looking for that effect. It's quite possible to lplay any PnP game with a video game feel to it, just like it's possible to play it witht he exact opposite feel.

[hyzmarca]

[Brontal]