Physical Barrier=Useless? Options

[emo samurai]

A starting magician can hope to make 6 successes around 1/4 times. Let's assume he does really well in general. That means that the barrier has 6 armor and 6 barrier rating. If a street sam with 10 shooting dice (HAH!) shoots it with an Ares Predator, he attacks a barrier that has 4 armor and 6 barrier rating. If he gets three successes on average and the barrier does, too, then he shoots the barrier with 8P, enough to puncture the barrier on an average hit. And that's if the mage rolls really well. The only way for this spell to be useful is if the mage burns edge.

[stevebugge]

False the Samurai does have to waste his time shooting out the barrier, which is time the mage can spend running away

[Shrike30]

Or shooting through the barrier, in which case I believe it provides protection for the mage. Then there's all the fun that can be had casting it in front of a speeding car...

[James McMurray]

Don't bullets get their DV dropped to 1 when firing at (not through) a barrier?

[Shrike30]

Yes, they do. Autofire helps, but recoil gets figured against the sam's pool, obviously.

[James McMurray]

That's what I thought I remembered. That means either the sammie takes a while to try and shoot that barrier down or gives people on the other side of it 6 free points of armor.

But if you're just looking for armor, the armor spell is good for that. Barrier's big benefit IMO is the ability to shape the battlefield.

[emo samurai]

Wow... so it DOES rock. And it replenishes itself every turn... so the only thing that could puncture it would be a grenade or something, and I don't expect it to stop a grenade.

And do you get the extra +9 damage from full auto if you shoot the barrier? I guess that makes a lot of sense if it does.

And thanks a LOT for you help, but bullets get DV=2.

[Shrike30]

If they're DV2, then rocking out on full auto against the wall would make your incoming DV 20, since I believe the way it's written is X per bullet.

A grenade would probably destroy it, but it does leave you with one big advantage... *that* grenade didn't hit you :)

[emo samurai]

No, when you fire more than one bullet, it's -1 to your shooting pool and +1 to damage. So shooting like that would be 11 DV. I guess autofire should shred physical barriers.

[damaleon]

Don't forget that a barrier's modified armor rating adds to the armor rating of those behind it, so a 6 armor phys. barrier adds 5 armor (-1 for the Pred) to your mage to defend against the damage, and the attacker gets a -1 die sight penalty for shooting through it. This can be a bad thing, since you will likely take stun damage from all attacks going through a decent barrier.

Of course if you have multiple people ready to attack, the first person each CT could attack the barrier to make a hole and those behind him can then shoot through the hole before it repairs itself for the next CT.

[emo samurai]

If any attack penetrates the barrier, though, the barrier collapses. So if a hole is chewed in the barrier, that's it for the mage.

[damaleon]

True, but the shot that did it still had to go through the barrier, so you get the armor bonus for that 1 attack, right?

[emo samurai]

I'm confused; if you shoot through the barrier like any other barrier, is it technically "penetrating" the barrier?

[damaleon]

Don't know, it isn't really explained. I mean, it can regenerate if damaged, but if someone does its structure rating in damage directly to it, its gone instantly? I think it should be more effective than an armored balloon that pops on the first prick. It wouldn't even have to do that much, since that's what you need to make a 1m X 1m hole in it.

Personally, when we use it, shooting to destroy the barrier and not someone behind it is the only way to force and end to the spell when it is being sustained, and only when you can to its (Force / 2) X structure rating in damage in one CT. If we attack someone protected by it, we use normal barrier rules with the -1 sight penalty and don't have it drop.

edit: I also like the idea that each attack directed against the barrier makes it harder to sustain instead of destroying it, but I am not sure how to make it work.

[Shrike30]

[emo samurai]

I know that; but does autofire give just +9 damage?

[James McMurray]

If it says 2 per bullet, then you count the bullets. I thought it was one per bullet, but I'm nowhere near a book to check.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Which makes special ammunition extremely interesting when attacking barriers. ;)

[dcpirahna]

[damaleon]

I just took a look at my book and yes, it is 2 DV per bullet in the table on 158.

APDS ammo for making a hole in a barrier is a waste since AP is ignored. Things like gel rounds and Ex or EXEX ammo are open to interpritation. Personally, I would count gel rounds as projectiles (DV 1) and DV mod of explosive ammo as Explosives per the table (base DV X 2), so Ex rounds would be DV 4 and EXEx as DV 6

[James McMurray]

I got a chance to check out the chart while playing tonight. I was remembering the 1 DV per projectile. So basically, unless you're a major badass, you won't be dropping a wall with a bow.

[emo samurai]

I was wondering, should the barrier resist every individual bullet in an auto-fire salvo seperately, or should it resist it as one big heap of damage? Say, if I were going full auto, would I roll Armorx2 against 2DV + hits, then Armorx2 against 1DV+hits nine times, or would I roll Armorx2 against 11DV + hits once?

[James McMurray]

Full auto is 10 rounds, so it has a DV of 20 plus hits when attacking to destroy a barrier. It's resisted as a single attack.

[emo samurai]

Where does it say that? I mean, it makes sense, but I can't find anything on that.

[James McMurray]

It doesn't spell it out, but it always refers to "the attack" when discussing barriers resisting damage. The chart indicates the DV of an attack. Presumably that combines to mean that a full auto burst, which is a single action, is also a single attack. That and it drastially reduces dice rolling.