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> Premium spell formulae.
emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 01:51 AM
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I get the impression that spell formulae come in varying degrees of quality. Could a higher quality spell formula have a lower drain code? For example, could a Delta Grade Fireball spell give (F/2)+3 drain instead of +5?
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 01:54 AM
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That has to be the most munchkin question ever asked, but what a great concept.

If I were to introduce Premium Formula, I would make the effect less... overpowered. Perhaps it reduces the signature length or decreases the Force when determining if the spell was noticed. I might even allow a slight change in the AOE, either way.
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 01:57 AM
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NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! That makes paying 10x normal for them useless!

And what would be the most munchkin question ever asked?

Maybe if they're taught the spell by a great dragon or something in game...
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 02:03 AM
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Dude, mages have money coming out their asses. Just run the 100 per hour making wards as the minimum wage of a magic user. Then consider summoning spirits to make the wards with you. That's 200 if you don't bother to bind any. A mage with a magic 1 working a regular full time will make 416,000 a year.
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 02:06 AM
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If he doesn't get any successes on his warding test, though, he gets fired.

Edited for lack of reason.
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Big D
post May 5 2006, 02:06 AM
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Err, I'm not sure there's *that* much demand for wards.

If there was, why would anybody be a wage mage?
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 02:07 AM
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What do you think wage mages do all day? I don't think paying a wage mage 500K a year is an over the top salary.

This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: May 5 2006, 02:08 AM
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 02:08 AM
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And, as said elsewhere, there are probably other jobs they could do that revolutionize whole industries.
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Big D
post May 5 2006, 02:15 AM
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If a mage can get filthy rich doing safe stuff, why would mages work security, much less shadowrun?

For that matter, why would talismongers sit behind a shop counter when they could be out making a fortune?
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 02:17 AM
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QUOTE (Big D @ May 4 2006, 09:15 PM)
If a mage can get filthy rich doing safe stuff, why would mages work security, much less shadowrun?

For that matter, why would talismongers sit behind a shop counter when they could be out making a fortune?

Because they can make even more money doing those things. But security mages would only get around 500,000 a year and be expected to make wards, as well.

Notice that the warding quote is simply to give you an hourly wage for mages, me thinks.
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Big D
post May 5 2006, 02:22 AM
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What about the second part of that?

If a mage can bring down $500K/year doing mostly safe stuff, why would any mage (outside of the very few who are so hunted that they can't get one of those jobs with a fake SIN, or who hate some corp so much that they put all their effort into a war on it) ever shadowrun?
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 02:26 AM
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Maybe they get more karma if they run; they'll just have less access to magical groups and stuff.
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 02:29 AM
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Same reasons anyone does, but the biggest one first:

Freedom / Independence - Live free and die free or maybe just pick the jobs you do. (Examples: Mages)

Exoneration - Perhaps it's to escape personal guilt or just a guilty charge... (Examples: The Fugitive, Cane, The Shadow)

Status Quo - "I've always been a criminal, my father was a criminal, and his father was a criminal." (Examples: George W. Bush, The Kennedys, Gotti)

Fulfillment - "Killing is the only thing I know how to do." (Examples: Batman, Art Danthwalker)

Excitement - "The only time I feel alive." (Examples: Hatchetman, Brock Sampson, Hackers)

Dissociation - Whether the person is lost in a Shadowrunner Sim or programmed by p'fix, they run by design. "The chips made me do it!" (Examples: Cyberzombies, Meat Puppets)

Recognition - "I am the best!" (Examples: The Black Archer, Kane, The Gingerbread Man)

Revenge - "They killed my wife, and now they will pay."

Pure Monetary Gain - "When I get the big one, I'll be set for life."
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 02:33 AM
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There's been talk about how if you start an orihalcum factory, you'll be the target of runners and stuff. But the thing is, Knight Errant security costs, like, :nuyen: 1500 a week, and that's under SR2 rules, where cyberarms were :nuyen: 100,000. If you make 4 units of orihalcum a month, and that's if you don't use karma pool, you can pay a whole fucking platoon to protect you. On an aircraft carrier. So mages should have money coming not only out of their asses, but out of their noses , mouths, and ears, too.
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 02:40 AM
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Exactly, there's never been a really good reason to run for money if you're a mage. Even hackers could make money hand over fist just writing programs.
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 02:50 AM
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Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.
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James McMurray
post May 5 2006, 02:56 AM
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Well, except for the brutish, stupid, bottom-feeding shadowrunners of course. :)
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Kanada Ten
post May 5 2006, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.

I'm not paying my players anything.
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 03:16 AM
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I should kill you for that, but I have to wait until they invent Black Hammer. But really, if they're Ocean's 11-level, they should make a shitload of money. If not, they can't buy the nice stuff that they publish whole books to show you.
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FanGirl
post May 5 2006, 03:30 AM
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QUOTE (emo samurai @ May 4 2006, 09:50 PM)
Which is why you should pay your players a shitload of money; shadowrunners are supposed to be brilliant, rich criminals, the height of the underworld food chain.

Sweet! I'm gonna get me a solid-gold house and a chocolate-covered pony! :D
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Big D
post May 5 2006, 03:38 AM
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You should have the cash to spare, too... I imagine all of your major "purchases" for some time will be initiation, sp^H^H CFs, and resonance.

Per the Agent thread, though, I'd recommend splurging on a commlink with a horde of Agent Smiths as your backup posse.
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Apathy
post May 5 2006, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE (Big D)
If a mage can get filthy rich doing safe stuff, why would mages work security, much less shadowrun?

For that matter, why would talismongers sit behind a shop counter when they could be out making a fortune?

This is actually a really common question on these boards.
"why should my low-level starting rigger go on a shadowrun for 5-10K, when he can make more that that jacking cars?"
"why should my mage ever run at all, if he can make 10x as much money making orachalcum (sp?)"
I think a fair amount of that has to be chaulked up to suspension of disbelief. Either that, or you're running because of something other than money (adventure, revenge, fear, etc.)
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 05:24 AM
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Did they call them agents just because of "The Matrix"?

I think they should allow payscales that transcend the norm; that's really the only rational reason for people to engage in high-risk corporate espionage. They aren't really even doing good; they're just profiteering, which is what they should be accomplishing if the GM is intelligent.
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mfb
post May 5 2006, 05:25 AM
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or just do the simple thing and say your mage can't get a work permit for that sort of thing. i'd be highly surprised if mages were allowed to go around putting up wards willy-nilly without some sort of certification. and i can't see the certification being all that easy to acquire for mages who don't sign a contract to work for the entity supplying that certification.
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emo samurai
post May 5 2006, 05:27 AM
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NO!! THEY MUST POWERGAME!!! :grr: :-D
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