 Religion in Shadowrun. |
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 May 9 2006, 12:11 AM
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#26
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383  |
No, see, you're not allowed to think that Nisarg is funny and sometimes partially correct. |
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May 9 2006, 12:13 AM
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#27
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
I'm so confused.
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May 9 2006, 12:19 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
Yeah, will you please explain? The power of Christ compels you! :D
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May 9 2006, 12:22 AM
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#29
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Nisarg is a guy with a blog (www.xanga.com/rpgpundit) who occasionally accuses Steve Kenson of being too ideologically driven in his game writing.
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May 9 2006, 12:27 AM
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#30
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
"Theory-Swine?" That describes, like, a lot of people here before the purge. That might describe a lot of people now. I love it, but I hate D20.
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May 9 2006, 12:33 AM
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#31
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Well, let me put it this way. Very few people would agree with everything he says but he's damn entertaining. Plus he gets bonus points for continually annoying the RPGnet people. |
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May 9 2006, 12:54 AM
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#32
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
What does he do? I don't know the RPGnet people.
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May 9 2006, 01:07 AM
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#33
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Okay, well this one definately caught my eye. I don't remember reading anything about this but its been a while so I was wondering which books gave you this impression? Certain factions have been getting a lot more political and seizing temporal power I'll give you that. But I'm fairly sure groups like the CoE and the Reformed and Lutheran denominations in places like Germany and the Scandinavian countries aren't just going to roll over for the Catholic Church. |
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May 9 2006, 01:07 AM
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#34
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
just hop over there and read. He bashes companies and people. Everyday he posts a huge rant on whoever gets in his crosshairs.
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May 9 2006, 01:27 AM
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#35
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Who are these Lawn-Crappers he talks about? I remember one kid from my first game of D&D who would always go "IWANNAKNOCKDOWNTHATDOORLETMELETMELETMELETMEI'MTHEFIGHTERIWANNAKNOCKDOWNTHAT DOOR!" and for the longest time I could not think about the game because I wanted to punch him in the face so much. Is he a Lawn-Crapper? Am I?
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May 9 2006, 01:56 AM
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#36
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
When the end times come, he will be given a quick death. |
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May 9 2006, 02:10 AM
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#37
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
That hasn't stopped it thus far, so what reason do you have to suspect that this would change? |
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May 9 2006, 02:22 AM
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#38
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
A Lawn Crapper is someone who engages in socially unacceptable behavior, so that kid throwing an inappropriate tantrum could be seen as a Lawn Crapper. Another example of a Lawn Crapper would be a guy who inappropriately hits on the females in his gaming group and makes them feel uncomfortable. The term Lawn Crapper comes from an example about pooping on your front lawn. Normally, pooping on your front lawn is socially unacceptable and everyone in the neighborhood would hate you. But if a lot of people who poop on their front lawn moved into a neighborhood they would take over the neighborhood and all the people who didn't like them would move out. The idea is that if enough socially unacceptable people enter RPG gaming they will drive all the well adjusted polite people from RPG gaming. Then the hobby will suffer as everyone will see it as a bastion only for total losers and not something that normal people can play without feeling ashamed. Nisarg says that people with extremely poor hygiene, odious social habits, and abberrant behavior are currently welcomed into RPG circles and the problem with this is that it will marginalize RPGs. His example is furries. He claims that at one time there were some artists who specialized in drawing anthropomorphized animals and that was fine. It was just a certain artistic theme. (See Bugs Bunny, for example.) But the furry field got overrun with the sexual fetish furries of today and it's come to the point where any normal person would be deeply ashamed of having anything to do with drawing furry style artwork. He claims that in order for RPGs to become more mainstream it needs to look like a wholesome hobby that parents don't have to warn their kids off of. He claims that this won't happen if RPGs accomidate socially unacceptable people and that instead this will make RPGs go the way of the furry subculture. So that's his basic idea of Lawn Crappers. |
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May 9 2006, 02:26 AM
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#39
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Is a person who takes his model-painting WAY too seriously a lawn-crapper, too? And does this include excessive, glibly treated violence in your games? ("The flesh-form explodes and a few drops of insect-fluid and blood land on your face. It burns.") If so, I am a lawn diarrheaist.
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May 9 2006, 02:30 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
Emo, you're not a lawn-crapper because you don't hit on me. Sure, you've shown that you can do a good Creepy Stalker Whisper, but that's only when you're playing your NPCs, and not when speaking to my PC.
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May 9 2006, 03:04 AM
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#41
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I think FG has caught t3h correct regarding Nisarg's ideology.
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May 9 2006, 03:14 AM
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#42
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Don't ya hate it when somebody misreads ya work? Oh and simply because I shouldgive kudos when due Mucho Kudos on Orxploitation Playing an ork in a new game andOrxploitation may feature prominently |
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May 9 2006, 05:14 AM
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#43
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Nor do I smell bad. I hope.
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May 9 2006, 06:08 AM
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#44
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Magic could be either a boost or a hindrance to a religion. On the one hand, you can claim to be doing "real" miracles. On the other hand, people can point out that so can an agnostic hermetic mage, and that your holy minion from the spirit world just got its ass kicked by the aforementioned hermetic mage's fire elemental.
Also, the traditional religions won't be the only ones doing some soul searching on whether awakened people are really performing religious miracles, or just people with a genetic gift. Think about how it could affect a true believer in wicca, if that obnoxious, crystal-waving, brain-dead wiccan poser can suddenly start astrally projecting, summoning spirits, and healing people, while he can't do anything, despite being a much more spiritually mature person, with a much better understanding of wicca. Christianity, even if you accept that a lot of denominations have gone back to the Catholic Church (which, in my opinion, is very implausible), consists of many different sects, and the awakening will probably bring about more - from armageddon cults to resurgences of things like gnosticism. You will have a mix of charismatic and cultlike churches with a shamanic approach (spirits looking like angels, spells being "miracles", etc.), and more mainstream denominations with a hermetic approach, where magical ability may be seen as a divine gift, but only in the same way that being good at sports is a gift. And there could be a lot of tension between the two. It's your campaign, Emo, but if I were to make one suggestion, it would be this - don't impose your own views too strongly, but instead, make it like politics. A million people with a million different positions, and some of them may be more right or reasoned than others, but the trick is hearing them over the background noise of everyone else. If you just stick it into one category, you miss all of the complexity, and all of the ways it adds nice juicy complications to a campaign. |
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May 9 2006, 06:32 AM
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#45
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Well, some Christian philosophers feel that belief in miracles is sort of missing the point. Some even take this to the extreme that belief in the divinity of Christ is not required to be a Christian and that such belief mmay be detrimental to one's faith.
Literalist interpertations of the bible are easily disproven and miracles are easily explained so faith that relies on the truth of these things is really fragile and can't actually be called faith at all. Instead one should accept the philosophy while taking all of the flat-eath crap in the context that it was written and understanding that it is mostly metaphor and sometimes mistake. A person can accept Christianity while understanding that Jesus wasn't actually the King of the Jews but just the enlightened kid of a girl who got knowcked up and needed a creative excuse to tell her fiance just as a person can accept Rock & Roll while understanding that Elvis was not literally a monarch. |
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May 9 2006, 07:26 AM
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#46
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
This Nisarg sounds like a buffoon. Granted I haven't read anything he has done, but if WR's post is indicative of his entire body of work, I should say that it isn't necessary. If I wanted silly generalizations about RPGers, I would read Jack Chick.
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May 9 2006, 07:38 AM
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#47
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
So how would a postmodern thinker such as you describe react to the awakening? Would he take a hermetic view of magic? Although I am curious why someone who doesn't believe in the divinity of Jesus would even profess Christianity. That sounds more like an agnostic to me. |
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May 9 2006, 07:47 AM
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#48
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
He's also much funnier. However, I can't disagree with the comments he made in his rants about Kenson's lack of objectivity given my reading of almost all (or all, I can't tell offhand right now) his SR work and knowing what I know of his personal life/background. However, I quite vehemently disagree with the idea that he produces good rules. |
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May 9 2006, 07:49 AM
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#49
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I suspect that such an individual would accept the hermetic view. The point of such a philosophical standpoint is to strengthen the Chrisitian faith in the face of science by accepting that there may not be any tangible difference between the miraculous and the mundane instead of taking the fundamentalist aproach and sticking one's fingers in one's ears and screaming "la-la-la" while hoping that science will go away and at the same time preventing interfaith discourse and recruitment from turning into a God's-penis-measuring contest.
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May 9 2006, 07:54 AM
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#50
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Note that most organized religions in the Sixth World distinguish between magic (one of the natural forces of the universe) and miracle (divine). For instance, the Catholic Church (and much of Christianity) does not view magic as inherently good or evil, but rather as a neutral force of nature. Where exactly they draw the line varies, but it does solve a number of issues that have been brought up here. A Catholic priest using magic is not performing miracles (and he's in for big trouble if he says he is because that's the territory of sainthood) - this is why the Sylvestrines are charged with investigating situations which might be instances of magic or miracle.
Oriental religions have a slight edge when it comes to accepting the Awakening because magic is already integral to their worldviews (sort of like Wicca) and part of their cosmologies. |
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