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> RFID tags and you
Geekkake
post May 8 2006, 08:28 PM
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I haven't used RFID tags very much in SR4, aside from reminding my players rather sternly that the tags are located in just about everything they purchase/acquire, and to bring their tag erasers. Aside from that, it just didn't seem that relevant to my game.

I've recently decided to have a 12mm x 2mm EM4102 glass RFID tag implanted into my hand. Obviously since my decision and attendant research, this issue has become a lot more, shall we say, thought-consuming.

I'm curious about how other GMs are using RFID tags, since I have no doubt that the presence of one in my body will cause them to appear more in the game.

I'm also curious if anyone else on the forum has already had this procedure done, and if we could discuss their experience via PM.
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FanGirl
post May 8 2006, 09:08 PM
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During FanGirl's first run, we had the chance to loot a runner mall that had been invaded by invae (see my diary thread for more details). She took a tag eraser to everything she picked up, but the group had to leave their stuff behind in order to leave the building via a quarantine thingy. KE had to bring the gear to the group a little later, and there's a possibility that the officers figured out that FanGirl's things had been detagged and replaced them with tagged items. Therefore, none of the items should be considered safe--not even the tag eraser itself--so I'll have her ditch the old tag eraser and take a new one to her loot, just to be safe.
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maikeru
post May 8 2006, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE
've recently decided to have a 12mm x 2mm EM4102 glass RFID tag implanted into my hand. Obviously since my decision and attendant research, this issue has become a lot more, shall we say, thought-consuming.


In RL what for?
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Voran
post May 8 2006, 10:45 PM
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Heh, for some reason this thought crossed my mind:

Someday soon someone might be able to report back to you, "Excuse me Mr. <x>, we've noted that your RFID tag in your hand seems to be centered around your crotch regularly from 7pm to 7:04 pm. Please remember to wash up."
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Nasrudith
post May 9 2006, 02:39 AM
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In my humble opinion about RFID chipping.
Getting something implanted into you doesn't sound too smart. The fact you'l need surgery when you get laid off, the growth of technology making it obsolote, the health effects not yet known, RFID hacking that coulld change your RFID from chaning it to "NAME PASSWORD ID" to "Arrest me" but it's your choice.
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Kiedo
post May 9 2006, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (Nasrudith)

In my humble opinion about RFID chipping.
Getting something implanted into you doesn't sound too smart. The fact you'l need surgery when you get laid off, the growth of technology making it obsolote, the health effects not yet known, RFID hacking that coulld change your RFID from chaning it to "NAME PASSWORD ID" to "Arrest me" but it's your choice.


the scary part is how easily that is done, it's impractical at this juncture (from what I understand) to encrypt RFID tags, to were they are at least hacker resistant, let alone safe. I was looking through an electronic's catalogue, and say they were selling RFID chip programers and readers, so anybody willing to fork out fifty bucks will be able to copy your tag, imprint it onto thier own (which they also sold) and get into what ever you have it for. But I don't think tag readers and scanners are that common place yet, so there is nothing to worry about, but as soon as the first nuclear weapons development facility switches from passwords to RFID tags you can bet your ass they'll be alot more people with em.

But that's just my two cents
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hobgoblin
post May 9 2006, 04:51 PM
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the surgery is at best local, and skin deep. something a doctor can do with some local anastetic and a scalpel (or for that matter a troll with a hammer and a rusty fork).

and encrypting the RFID will not help much if the content of it isnt connected to that specific RFID. a string of data is a string of data, and can be copyed. so unless said encrypted string of data contains the serial number of the RFID is stored on, you got yourself no better security then without the encryption.
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Geekkake
post May 9 2006, 08:37 PM
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To address some of the questions/comments:

QUOTE (maikeru)
In RL what for?


My primary interest is philosophical curiosity and a fervent desire to embrace transhuman technology. This seems like a small, first step in that direction. A close second is my ability to introduce further convenience into my home (keyless entry, personal customization, etc.). Third, I'm deeply interested in the technical side, and starting projects around my home incoporating the technology.

QUOTE (Nasrudith)
The fact you'l need surgery when you get laid off, the growth of technology making it obsolote, the health effects not yet known, RFID hacking that coulld change your RFID from chaning it to "NAME PASSWORD ID" to "Arrest me" but it's your choice.


The surgery's a simple incision, outpatient and quick. Obsolescence can be overcome as easily as cutting open the skin above the tag, which is lying just under, and removing the old tag. Once the small cut heals over, a new one can be implanted without worrying about it falling out. Regarding changing the tag, my first implant (I plan for two, in the future) will be a read-only, unencrypted tag, which can be scanned and cloned, but not altered in any way.

That the health risks aren't known and could be substantial is a point of concern for me, but is overshadowed by my excitement and curiosity. That's a reckless viewpoint, I understand, but a trip to the emergency room seems worth the entire experience to me.

My personal activities and viewpoints aside, I'm still curious as to how other GMs are handling RFID tags in general, aside from a way to taunt and/or punish careless players.
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emo samurai
post May 9 2006, 10:11 PM
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I'd be okay with it as far as opening my door is concerned, but is there any way to make it so I'm not tracked?
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Geekkake
post May 9 2006, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
I'd be okay with it as far as opening my door is concerned, but is there any way to make it so I'm not tracked?

RFID tags aren't a tracking technology, they're an identification technology, like the magnetic strip in your driver's license or a barcode. The response range of the chip that will be implanted in my hand (hopefully next week) is 1.5 inches perpendicular, or .5 inches parallel. With the location of the implant, I'll basically have to place my hand on a reader, or extremely close to it, for the chip to respond to the reader's RF signal and emit the identification code.

An implanted RFID tag can't be tracked by satellite, GPS, or readers outside the tag's emission range (of 1.5 inches, tops). I have to voluntarily scan my hand.
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emo samurai
post May 9 2006, 11:50 PM
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Any essence costs?
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Shrike30
post May 9 2006, 11:51 PM
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I put RFID's everywhere in my game. Anything that people own that's at all important? Tagged. All of your employees? Tagged (and the sec personnell are usually biomonitored, too). Anything a company has in it's inventory? Tagged. Anything you might put down and forget... pet, newspaper, soft drink, lipstick, car key? Tagged.

The one that's got my players really paranoid would be the use of stealth and security tags... it's so amazingly inexpensive to bug something in SR4 that I've taken a phrase from Inherit the Earth... "it's more expensive to not bug something these days."

They've come across bugging and tracking RFID's in people, in clothing, in their food, in the seat of their taxi, in gear they've just bought on the cheap, on walls, floors, and ceilings, slipped under doors, tucked into envelopes, stuck to things to pass messages, built into thumbtacks holding posters to walls... and they're aware that they don't find or don't know about at least half of what they encounter. The tag eraser our hacker carries is (houserule) amped up enough that it can fry a security bug, but in the process it turns the bug into a boiling, white-hot bubble of silicon (not the happiest thing to have under your skin or in your clothes), and it's not a precise device... it cooks pretty much any RFID in a cone within a few feet in front of the emitter, including ones you might not want to cook. All the more entertaining when you start thinking about sweeping everything (and everyone) you meet with one.
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Shrike30
post May 9 2006, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
Any essence costs?

No more than, say, a nanotattoo (that is, 0).
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emo samurai
post May 9 2006, 11:58 PM
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What kind of radiation does it give off? If it's radio waves, then I have no problem.
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James McMurray
post May 10 2006, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ May 9 2006, 03:50 PM)
Any essence costs?

No more than, say, a nanotattoo (that is, 0).

He says that now. But wait until he gets two of them and finds out that the tech is so new right now the essence cost is 5.4 each. :D
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emo samurai
post May 10 2006, 12:04 AM
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It better boost our reflexes and strength too if it does cost that much.
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James McMurray
post May 10 2006, 12:07 AM
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Why? Early tech sucks. The first version of Wired Reflexes 1 probably had an essence cost of 10 before they perfected the design and surgery procedure. 5.4 is waaay too much, but 0.00 might be too little.

We should bump this thread in a couple months to see if he's suffering from any cyberpsychosis. :)
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emo samurai
post May 10 2006, 12:08 AM
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Dude, I think he's ALWAYS suffered from cyberpsychosis, ever since I killed his dog with my character thread. :D
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Geekkake
post May 10 2006, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE (emo samurai)
Dude, I think he's ALWAYS suffered from cyberpsychosis, ever since I killed his dog with my character thread. :D

You ridiculous idea killed my father, and now it's after me.

QUOTE (emo samurai)
What kind of radiation does it give off? If it's radio waves, then I have no problem.


Just radio waves. Harmless. The radio waves also only emit when powered by a reader, too, as stated previously.

Also, since the RFID implant just rests under the skin, I'm gonna say Essence cost of 0. I can't believe I'm dignifying the concept with a ruling...
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emo samurai
post May 10 2006, 12:45 AM
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This is Dumpshock. We ALWAYS need a ruling, usually multiple ones.
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Shrike30
post May 10 2006, 01:04 AM
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OK, let's put it this way:

Your wage-mage is a serious investment. Therefore, you chip him.

If chipping him was a massive impairment to his magical ability, do you think we'd do it?

RFID implantation would have about as much impact on essense as getting your ear pierced, or getting a bad splinter.
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Geekkake
post May 10 2006, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
OK, let's put it this way:

Your wage-mage is a serious investment. Therefore, you chip him.

If chipping him was a massive impairment to his magical ability, do you think we'd do it?

RFID implantation would have about as much impact on essense as getting your ear pierced, or getting a bad splinter.

While I agree with the Essence cost, your argument wasn't compelling. You could always give him a titanium, unlockable wristband with RFID.
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Nikoli
post May 10 2006, 02:43 AM
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But then he could break his hand and slip out of it, setting a hand without comprimising ones magical talents should be relatively easy.
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emo samurai
post May 10 2006, 02:44 AM
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Or he could shape earth it off his hand. I'm sure lots of people would love to teach their mages that.

Or he could have an earth elemental break it.
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Nikoli
post May 10 2006, 02:48 AM
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Or expand it and then shrink it around the neck of a barghest while it sleeps...
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