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> Shadowrun . . . alas, it fades
Union Jane
post May 9 2006, 03:51 PM
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So continues the gnashing of the teeth.

We're closing in one year since the sourebook's release date and still no GM screen to be had. The first adventure has yet to hit print. I don't really know what to say. I should think that FanPro would have had some kind of agenda for SR4, rather than hurrying to make last year's GenCon. A better plan would have been waiting until GenCon 2006 for a release, so that other products would be ready for publication immediately following. I expect such behaviour from my local D20 company, dodgy fellows that they are, but I have always held Shadowrun to a hire standard.

Perhaps that was my mistake.
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MYST1C
post May 9 2006, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (Union Jane)
We're closing in one year since the sourebook's release date and still no GM screen to be had.  The first adventure has yet to hit print.

I don't know about the rest of the world but here in Germany both On The Run and the GM Screen (German versions) are available in print.
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Daddy's Litt...
post May 9 2006, 04:10 PM
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Stiggysbaby in the US has what look like an Adventure.
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stevebugge
post May 9 2006, 04:18 PM
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I picked up a copy of "On the Run" at Gary's Games in North Seattle last Thursday. It is available, though it may be selling fast.
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BookWyrm
post May 9 2006, 06:06 PM
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O_O

I've got to check with my local supplier.
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Union Jane
post May 9 2006, 06:07 PM
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Alrighty then, I stand corrected. The first product in support of SR4 was released 9-10 months after the rulebook.
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Zolhex
post May 9 2006, 07:06 PM
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well I have the first adventure and I understand the gm screen is coming soon.

As for time SR4 was released in Aug. 2005 so that makes it 8 months right? and in the next 3 months they have plans to drop what 2 or 3 books on the market?
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Synner
post May 9 2006, 07:15 PM
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Actually due to various delays the printed version of SR4 only reached stores in late September/October 2005. So the first release was about 7-8 months (and three printings) after the core book (if you don't count the pdf release more than a month ago). People tend to forget that FanPro is a two guy outfit which runs two successful lines (SR and Battletech) and is developing a third (The Dark Eye). There's only so many projects that can be developed simultaneously.

Several of the core supplements are in advanced stages of development, but are being thoroughly checked and crosschecked for compatibility and streamlining to ensure minimal bloat and complete integration with the existing system. If they were less critical releases maybe FanPro would have already put them out the door, but these are the core books for the entire system and they need to be done right.
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stevebugge
post May 9 2006, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (Synner)
Actually due to various delays the printed version of SR4 only reached stores in late September/October 2005. So the first release was about 7-8 months (and three printings) after the core book (if you don't count the pdf release more than a month ago).

Several of the core supplements are in advanced stages of development, but are being thoroughly checked and crosschecked for compatibility and streamlining to ensure minimal bloat and complete integration with the existing system. If they were less critical releases maybe FanPro would have already put them out the door, but these are the core books for the entire system and they need to be done right.

And I can appreciate that reasoning. After some of the nearly game breaking and poorly thought out additions put out in SR 2 & 3 in the in depth focus books (see my comments about whirling in the martial arts thread for an example of what I mean) I fully support a slower release schedule if it means a better end product. Besides it's always easier to add something later than to include it right away and then discover it wasn't a good idea and remove it later. Hopefully the playtesters are pushing the envelope enough to find the problem rules before the books go to print.
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Ancient History
post May 9 2006, 08:18 PM
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Hey, at least you can't complain that keeping current with SR4 puts a big dent in your wallet.
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frostPDP
post May 10 2006, 02:46 AM
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Take your time. Give us good products.

I still play SR3 but with some SR4 mods (Wireless Matrix and the Contacts system) but make more stuff better :) Bad grammar, I know.
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Daddy's Litt...
post May 10 2006, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
Hey, at least you can't complain that keeping current with SR4 puts a big dent in your wallet.

ssshhhh that was Snow Fox' big argument remember. say it too loudly and she will find something else to get grumpy about.
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Eldritch
post May 11 2006, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE
People tend to forget that FanPro is a two guy outfit which runs two successful lines (SR and Battletech) and is developing a third (The Dark Eye). There's only so many projects that can be developed simultaneously.


Well then, why add a third line? Focus on what you have, develop it and get it out the door. Nothing kills a game quicker than a dodgey release schedule.

I mean if they are not having success with BT or SR, then drop one in favor of the new line.

If SR and BT are both successful, I would think they want to shore up their release schedule, keep a steady stream of books coming into their fans hands than try something new - and risky.

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Snow_Fox
post May 11 2006, 01:04 AM
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It's worse than that. They abandoned 3rd ed. Those of us who won't switch are just going on with the stuff we have and no incentive to go to 4th ed. I mena really. I've got lots of books on magic, wheels, guns and tech ofr 3rd ed or just a basic book for 4th. hmmm, which gives me a richer world to play in?

QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ May 10 2006, 10:10 AM)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ May 9 2006, 03:18 PM)
Hey, at least you can't complain that keeping current with SR4 puts a big dent in your wallet.

ssshhhh that was Snow Fox' big argument remember. say it too loudly and she will find something else to get grumpy about.

You are toast!
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James McMurray
post May 11 2006, 02:12 AM
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There's no such thing as having a new edition without "abandoning" the old. Doing that would leave two Shadowrun lines competing with one another. The game has a hard enough time competing witht he rest of the world without a civil war int he print house.
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blakkie
post May 11 2006, 11:34 AM
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... posted twice for double the fun ...
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blakkie
post May 11 2006, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ May 10 2006, 07:04 PM)
It's worse than that. They abandoned 3rd ed. Those of us who won't switch are just going on with the stuff we have and no incentive to go to 4th ed. I mena really. I've got lots of books on magic, wheels, guns and tech ofr 3rd ed or just a basic book for 4th. hmmm, which gives me a richer world to play in?

I'm not entirely convinced that R3 is better than no wheels book. ;)

SR4 is definately going through printing runs briskly. Someone mentioned a few months back that the SR4 BBB is outpacing what SR3 BBB sales were. They didn't mention if that was in dollars or units, but even if just in dollars that seems much less a fade than a revitalization. I think that longterm both they and players are going to be better served by figuring out the secondary core books as a whole. The best of course is doing that before even the BBB hits the printers, but alas we live in a resource limited world.

EDIT: Longterm SR4 BBB sales might slump a bit over the SR3 BBB given that there hasn't been any word yet of the SR4 BBB bindings being prone to falling apart. :cyber:
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Witness
post May 11 2006, 12:04 PM
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Feels to me like having fewer sourcebooks means having more room to play with the setting using your own imagination. That's a bad thing?
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fistandantilus4....
post May 11 2006, 12:21 PM
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not everyone wants to go through all the hassle, or appreciate the ideas given to them as tools to work with. Besides, you can always go off canon, or just run your game in an area not covered by a sourcebook. But at least with the book in front of you (or on the shelf) you have the option to use it or not. Without it, your option is simply... not.
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blakkie
post May 11 2006, 12:51 PM
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I would prefer the books in hand.

But not having them is working ok. Especially when you have none of them. The awkward part is to come when you have some but not all. Hopefully they'll be able to bring them out on a relatively fast schedule once they get them all squared with each other. Still though there is quite likely going to be a minimum full year between Street Magic and Unwired because marketing theory says you spread out your releases some so they don't compete with each other and don't up your costs by requiring a bigger delivery structure to handle near simultaneous product releases.
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Kremlin KOA
post May 11 2006, 12:57 PM
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However that theory falls down wiith something like RPG books
especially if R&D costs are low due to being primarily an edition change

releasing all the "Fatsplats" simultaneously would mean higher sales in the first 3-6 months followed by a faster drop to the trickle level expected from them in the long term

this initial cash injection could be used to reinvest into the production of more adventure and storyline books

meaning a faster growth cycle

That was how WOTC turned D&D around from a money loser to a huge cash cow
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blakkie
post May 11 2006, 01:03 PM
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I contend that WotC turned around D&D because they had the cash backing to spend comparatively enormous amounts on R&D, with the the freedom to playtest the living crap out of it to get it "right" according to a very well conceived marketing plan. Basically they had the size and the potential market size to make feasible a high quality product.....and then they made it.

D&D has traditionally been a 3 book to SR's 1 BBB, and effectively are one release. The 3e *books actually took a fair amount of time to come out.
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JongWK
post May 11 2006, 01:17 PM
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IIRC, some of the basic splatbooks for D&D 3E (like Song & Silence) sourcebook) came out almost 2 years after the core books were released.
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blakkie
post May 11 2006, 01:44 PM
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It was definately over a year but something less than 2. Was it GenCon 2000 that 3e came out at? S&S, i remember because i like my rogues, came out christmas 2001 and Masters of the Wild was after that in late winter/early spring 2002.
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SL James
post May 11 2006, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Witness)
Feels to me like having fewer sourcebooks means having more room to play with the setting using your own imagination. That's a bad thing?

You've never had your imagination co-opted by sourcebook retconning, have you?
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