 Shadowrun . . . alas, it fades |
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 May 12 2006, 01:03 PM
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#51
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581  |
SR2 and SR3 were incremental improvements on SR1. They're not fully back-compatible, but you can port stuff from one to the next with a reasonable degree of success, and the changes were small enough that it was only the few people whose particular sacred cow got gored (initiative and grounding are probably the most common ones for SR2->3) who wouldn't upgrade... and even then, many of them upgraded and just kept the old rule in place, because, as an incremental upgrade, you could do that. SR4 is not incremental. Whether it's an improvement is a matter of opinion. |
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May 12 2006, 09:36 PM
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#52
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Jeez, people, my tongue was in my cheek the whole time. I wasn't serious.
And nobody answered my question... can anybody name another game publisher that made a new edition of a game, but kept putting out products for the old edition? I don't see a precedent here. |
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May 12 2006, 09:39 PM
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#53
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
The closest I can think of is ICE with HARP and RoleMaster. Not really what you're asking for but HARP is kinda like a watered down basic set of RM. |
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May 12 2006, 09:49 PM
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#54
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Personally, I would have loved to see the SR4 core come out and then all the rules supplements (Street Magic, Unwired, etc.) come out within the year, at most. But there are logistics to consider that have been mentioned already. A good chunk of the freelancers were neck-deep in the writing/testing of SR4 Core and therefore wouldn't have been available to be writing the supplements at the same time. Most of the remaining freelancers who weren't writing SR4 Core (like myself) were writing System Failure at the time. Not to mention the Fourth Edition development was secret even to some of us, so we couldn't have been working on SR4 books (since we didn't know there'd be an SR4!). I started my System Failure writing completely unaware it would be the last SR3 book. :P
Street Magic is taking longer than I'd like as a fan. But I also know how much work we're putting into and how much playtesting is required for it to come out solid. Being privy to that, I feel it's worth it. The delay is better than half-assing a book like that, in my opinion. :) Personally, I also think we need a bigger freelancer pool so we can be writing more material simultaneously. All I can recommend there is that people who are interested do stuff like get involved in the website fiction so you come to the notice of Rob and the assistant devs. |
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May 12 2006, 09:50 PM
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#55
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Well, we could argue Classic Battletech vs Mechwarrior, or Earthdawn and Earthdawn - but those are different publishers. |
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May 12 2006, 10:03 PM
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#56
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
How soon did Magic in the Shadows come after SR3 core?
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May 12 2006, 10:05 PM
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#57
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
SR3 came out in August 1998; Magic in the Shadows was roughly March 1999. The last SR3 rulebook was Rigger 3, rushed out the door when FASA was closing in early 2001.
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May 12 2006, 10:13 PM
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#58
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Ya, I remember that Rigger 3 took a long time to come out. Then got re-release a year or two later. Matrix took a couple years too, or at least year and a half don't remember what time of year it came out in 2000. Cannon Companion was in 2000 as well.
Was magic the first one out for SR3 too? Checking the copyrights at the front of the books Man & Machine, MitS, and SR Comp all came out the calendar year following the BBB. |
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May 12 2006, 10:18 PM
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#59
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
If I'm remembering things correctly, the SR3 Companion was first, then MitS, then Man & Machine, Matrix, Cannon Companion, Rigger 3. FASA's story was that they never intended to update the Companion to SR3, but changed their minds in the middle of '98 and fast-tracked it for a release early the next year.
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May 13 2006, 03:41 AM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Lack of sales? What? Many of you freaks would kill for Street Magic. And why would it have to be $100.00? You make no sense. Besides, like I said, not our problem. I don't care how many people work for Fan Pro, I want my books. If they can't release them fast enough, then I won't wait 4 years to get one, I'll do it myself and then they lose money. I want them to "get them out of the way", because I'm not buying the rule books, I want to buy setting books. And I didn't mention anything about the numerous ones already out, I have them, I've read them and I want more. Where'd you find the info on the setting book that's in editting? |
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May 13 2006, 04:31 AM
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#61
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
....I feel the same way about canon & CJs. After the aforementioned aborted TT campaign, I pretty much now stand by the Shadowrun world as I see it. Yeah I still get complaints from time to time (like when I introduced the "Sensitive" [Empath] archetype as an NPC in my last campaign). However, I find much of the fun of working up a campaign is personalising it to a degree. I have successfully ran several "single session" missions and was satisfied with how they went. I am currently working on a slightly longer scenario (3 - 4 session depending on what the characters do) but am not looking to do a major arc on the level of "Drivetime" (SR1 - 2) or "Rhapsody in Shadow" (SR3 - which by the way I would still like to get published) until some of the other supplements are released. The only thng I still have difficulty with is when there is a much needed mechanic - such as vehicle design - that has not been re-introduced in SR4 yet. Extrapolating from, Rigger 3 really doesn't work very well since the basis for vehicle attributes and performance has been changed. On the other hand, things, like new Adept Powers, Character Qualities, weapons & basic gear (or old ones that were not included in the base rules) are somewhat easier to work up by simply using the same framework from SR3 and adjusting for the SR4 mechanic (BPs, Power Points, DV etc.). |
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May 13 2006, 10:32 AM
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#62
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Knight Templar Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 212 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Ipswich, UK Just South of the Stinkfens Member No.: 6,424 |
I can see why FanPro doesn't continue supporting SR3. SR4 is the way they intend to go. I don't like it which is why I have taken my gaming dollars (or pounds in my case) elsewhere.
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May 13 2006, 03:43 PM
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#63
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
The irony was apparent, but it wasn't obvious which direction you were going with it.
TSR ran the D&D and AD&D lines in parallel for quite some years. (Though I don't think I've ever actually met anyone who played D&D much after AD&D came out... but someone must have been, or they wouldn't have kept producing stuff for it.) Battletech and MW:DA (does anyone play Clickywarrior anymore?) might qualify, too, though that's a rather more extreme case than even a radically altered new edition. I seem to recall that one of the old games that switched to d20 has dual stat sets in its sourcebooks, for d20 and the older system, but I don't remember which it was... |
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May 13 2006, 06:07 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
Bite your tounge! ;) D&D Rules Cyclopedia - basically the basic, companion, expert, master, and immortal sets combined into one hardback. Great for running one shot games when you didn't want to break out the countless 1e books. |
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May 13 2006, 06:41 PM
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#65
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
at least two that i know of--Deadlands and L5R. L5R has stopped doing so, since WotC basically bent them over the table. i don't believe Deadlands does it anymore either, as they're switching over to Savage Worlds. |
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May 13 2006, 06:57 PM
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#66
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
Fading suns for the trifecta
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May 13 2006, 11:46 PM
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#67
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I once had my d20 group hurled backwards through time. I simulated it by converting the characters to the D&D Cyclopedia and running Sabre River (the campaign was just barely in the epic range, so it worked out pretty well). By the end of it they were begging to get back tot he world they knew. |
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May 14 2006, 01:10 AM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
Heh. Introducing d20 players to the mechanics of basic/1e d&d is just cruel. :love: |
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May 14 2006, 04:22 AM
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#69
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It turned out to be pretty fun. Sabre River is a pretty neat adventure if you don't mind having to do a little railroading. I never did, because they knew their only route home lay in solving the mystery, but a GM without that built in motivator might have to.
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May 14 2006, 01:00 PM
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#70
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I would have quit playing. Just glacing in those old books, which i have around, brings back too much rules pain. :( |
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May 14 2006, 03:53 PM
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#71
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
You know, near where is live there is a river than legend says holds the rotting corpse of a GM who tried tht on his players
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May 14 2006, 05:27 PM
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#72
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Guardians of order have a Tri-Stat system and a D20 system for many of their games. The Tri-Stat system was first, so D20 was another edition, per se. Thy still support both.
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May 14 2006, 06:37 PM
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#73
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
With the exception of Silver Age Sentinels [and the deluxe A Game of Thrones RPG], GoO didn't dual-stat any game lines; almost all their properties that had both d20 and Tri-Stat versions had distinct products, even if they carried the same name.
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May 14 2006, 08:37 PM
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#74
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Eh, we had fun. Besides, if it would have made blakkie quit my game I'd have done it the first time he sat at the table. ;)
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May 15 2006, 02:17 AM
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#75
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
I understand it makes no sense to keep 3rd Ed going when you've borught out 4th ed. I understand completely. BUT My point was they ended 3rd ed. Brought out 4th Ed's core book and then....well? Runners Havens does have my interest but none of the other stuff.
My complaint was that they know they needed to do core books- magic, matrix, cyberware, wheels, weapons, but didn't. they didn't have them on the lnie and not releasing them. Just convert the wheel and weapons books the way they converted almost unchanged the "companion" between 2nd and 3rd ed's. Yes long time posters will remember I was pissed at that but there are poeplew who are playing 4th ed and want the back up. Drawing it out like this is losing the market they might have otherwise capitalized. I predict people will get tired of waiting, drift back to 3rd ed with the bits they liked from 4, like the matrix which seems to be the best thing, and use the 3rd ed rules since htose are well developed. Anyone suprised to learn I haven't bought 4th ed yet and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. anyone? anyone at all? Adam, sleep. That's an order. Or else i shall torment you over every flaw the editor misses. :vegm: |
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