Coming to America. (Shen's bl0g) Options

[emo samurai]

NOT COOL!!!

>>Irreverent Fool

---Irreverent Fool has logged off.

[FanGirl]

[emo samurai]

Who are these "children?" Is it the gangsters? I have already said that I don't really care about their lives THAT much and that I'd gladly send them crazy magical help if they needed it. Is it the kid? I've already sent him a spirit to watch over him in case the gangsters wanted revenge. And most of all, this disarmament is TEMPORARY. It'll last until they learn. And until you shoot at my astrally projecting form for asking you what you think the purpose of your life is, you have nothing to fear from me.

As for comparing me to Deus, first of all , thank you, second of all, I haven't created any biomechanical freaks or implanted mind-control cybereyes in anybody. Yet. :D

>>Shen

[James McMurray]

[emo samurai]

So what should I have done? You have already said that having an unseen tormentor would inspire them to beat the boy more. My best bet for protecting the child, aside from killing the gang or adopting him, was reducing their capacity for violence and keeping spirit protectors in place to protect him. And so far, the peace has been pretty much protected, with no real casualties outside of a few poignant burns that will heal within weeks without medical attention and a bunch of scared go-gangers. My spirits of man have reported that pretty much everyone is too afraid of Mr. Pyro the Burninator to hurt anybody, and outside of my astral sweeps, there are patrolling spirits at all times of the day and night. They keep the order much more impartially than a group of self-interested dumbasses who regularly mug people ever could.

What made you think I was crazy? The fact that I call the fire spirit Mr. Pyro? I give all my spirits pet names; it's kind of like a serial killer and his knife, except they aren't all girls' names.

You'll note that I don't quite take you seriously.

And adopting the kid might not have been such a bad idea, now that I think of it.

>>Shen

[FanGirl]

[emo samurai]

Did she take into account the fact that rival gangs are less likely to attack because of the Astral Thought Police and Pyro the Burninator? That as long as he doesn't hurt anybody, he won't get burned even a little bit, but that if he were to so much as wear the wrong colors on rival turf, he would have a nine-millimeter hole in his head... and in his chest... and everywhere else on his body? Or that her son was a piece of crap who was lucky to just get lightly singed, who was found beating a younger boy who himself had an older sister?

>>Shen

[FanGirl]

Did you take into account that mothers are not often rational or impartial when it comes to their children?

>>FanGirl

EDIT: Oh yeah, and her son wasn't even with those people when they beat up the ten-year-old. He was three blocks away with his patrol.

[emo samurai]

So you're saying that the whole entire point of your last post wasn't rational or impartial? That the gist of it was "You make a valid argument, but you made a hypersensitive lady cry?"

>>Shen

Edit: Is he okay? If not, I'll have a spirit heal him.

I told it to just LIGHTLY burn them. I'm sure it did just that, but I should have one heal everybody anyway.

[FanGirl]

That's not what I meant at all! How on earth could she know that your spirits are on patrol, and even if you went to visit her and explained that, why would she believe you? All she knows is that her son's friends were attacked by some crazy spell-slinger, and I doubt she can see any reason why she should trust him not to go after her child.

Also, this woman is hardly "hypersensitive." I remember when her husband left her last year--the day afterwards, she hosted a spontaneous barbeque on her balcony to celebrate "the bastard's" departure. If you attack can turn someone as tough as her into a nervous wreck, just imagine how frightened the other mothers in the neighborhood must feel. Being secure doesn't simply mean being out of physical danger, it also means having peace of mind and not being afraid for yourself or your loved ones. You may have done a little to increase the physical safety of the neighborhood, but if your plan was to make us feel less vulnerable, then it's completely backfired. In the three years I've lived here, I can't remember a time when things were as tense as they are now.

>>FanGirl

[emo samurai]

[FanGirl]

I'd love to stay and argue with you some more, but I'm afraid that I can't say anything more that would reach you. Instead, I'll leave you with the words of Emile Durkheim:

[emo samurai]

Emile Durkham is all about protecting social order. How the hell would allowing for muggings protect social order? And what about the people being mugged; should they be sacrificed for this Durkheimian sense of "organic social order?" I can understand preserving an organic economy to hold people together as opposed to a traditional punitive one, but seriously, when that organic economy involves arbitrary beatings, I really, really feel the need to step in.

And to attack the very foundation of his philosophy of society. It is almost entirely based on making the individual feel insignificant and part of a group. I abhor this; I acknowledge individual rights. In fact, I acknowledge individual rights that I would be willing to take these social norms and incinerate them if they were indeed physical. Outside of "Don't hit people or be a dick," very few rules need to exist, and yet you support the existence of the most microcosmically oppressive social order outside of a family, and that's the gang with its colors and its turf and its guns just waiting to kill you over an unkind word.

And as for the "Big Brother" remark. I don't recall telling my spirits to read the minds of anybody but gangsters. If you accept that they die every so often, then you have to accept that they get mind probed, too.

>>Shen

[Ophis]

Actually i don't have to accept either of those things if accept the other. What gives you the right to decide who and what a group of gangers can fight? Your methods sound like someone trying to usurp control rather than cure the problem. Gangs happen for a few reason, mostly fear, people want to feel safe being in a gang gives you a whole host of people who'll back you up if someone goes for you. Sure they threaten other people but most gangs protect their own neighborhood and cause trouble elsewhere. It's just yet another expression of the human tribal instinct. You want people to stop being gangsters? Give them what they need not more fear.

I like your basic ideas, you want to improve the world, thats cool, so do I. Random brutality will not do it. Save the boy fine, but then enact a reign of terror, hmm I knew you reminded me of someone.

Phoenix@thecentrepoint

[emo samurai]

So random beatings for protection money isn't terror?

I don't hurt people if they disrespect me; I don't tell them they have to allow ugly racist scribblings to exist; I don't ask for money. All I ask is that people don't knife each other in alleyways. I'm surprised that you somehow find that more oppressive than constant, if low-key, warfare, with all the doublethink and propaganda intact.

>>Shen

[James McMurray]

It isn't that you righted a wrong, it's how you did it. You've only removed one danger and inserted another. Humans, even those in gangs, are something the average person can understand. They may or may not like trading money for protection from outside gangs, but at least they know what's going on. Now they're beset by spirits walking the streets, accosting anyone that "thinks bad thoughts."

From what little I understand of spirits they don't always understand everything that's told to them. Sometimes they act like computer programs, interpreting things literally and sometimes they act like aliens not understanding the world around them.

I'd love to hear the instructions you gave these spirits, as I think it's only a matter of time before one of them assaults an old lady for thinking about beating up her alcoholic husband.

[FanGirl]

What I don't understand is that you talk about how much you hate oppressive social structures in which the autonomy of the individual is stifled, then go and turn my neighborhood into a dictatorship. A benevolent dictatorship, but a dictatorship nonetheless. Sure, people did obey the gang out of the fear of being mugged and shot before you came along, but now they're obeying you out of the even more intense fear of being burned and mindraped. How is the ganger's oligarchy any more oppressive than your absolute monarchy?

>>FanGirl

[emo samurai]

Spirits aren't really like computer programs; they just embody whatever plane they come from. Fire spirits like to burn things, water spirits like oceans, and spirits of man understand people and very little else. When I'm not there, the ones actually making decisions are spirits of man; the fire spirit is really only there for muscle; when I'm not astrally projecting myself, it takes orders from the spirits of man when they themselves have trouble.

They don't mindprobe anybody outside the gang that I torched and people assensed as having truly murderous intent, and my spirits can easily tell the difference between seething hatred and intent to do mischief especially after a mindprobe. The spell they know works perfectly, and this confusion is VERY unlikely. They are, after all, spirits of man, so they can probably tell the difference better than you or I could.

I've set up an astrally lurking watcher in an empty lot; if anybody has a complaint against anybody else, then they can literally knock on wood, and I will come flying back to listen. The spirits of man have instructions to assense anybody before they mind probe them, and to mind probe them only after they're more or less sure they aim to harm. They could sense intent more accurately than a lie detector, or either of you, for that matter.

Nobody has to OBEY me. They just have to not kill each other. The gang, though, you had to obey. Don't ignore that.

As for the fear of gangs vs. fear of spirits. If you threw a rock at one of my spirits, or gave it the middle finger, it wouldn't care. The rock would bounce off of its physical form, and the middle finger doesn't threaten something that could manabolt you with a thought. Hell, you could spraypaint it, or even shoot it, and it would be perfectly fine. It's not until you mug somebody or knife them or actually harm the spirits themselves (VERY unlikely) that there's a problem. And as for your right to flip off the gangsters for all the shit they've given you, they would definitely protect your right to do that. They won't try ANYTHING with the threat of Mr. Pyro hanging over their heads.

So in essence, I oppress the oppressors. The only people who are watched are the muggers and the gangsters and the murderers; everybody else is as safe as anybody could be where people are hungry, cold, and afraid. The only difference between this and an unbribable, perfectly loyal police force is that this one glows and floats around a lot.

>>Shen

[James McMurray]

You honestly think that having spirits patroling their streets and mind probing people isn't scary? It doesn't matter if it's only probing gangsters, people won't know that. you truly are a misguided delusional fool. I can only hope that the gang manages to pull together enough money to hire a team to take you out before you decide more people need your "governmental wisdom."

[emo samurai]

Let me get this straight. The gang, which actually intends to harm everyday passerbys and protect its honor to the point of killing people without a thought is less of an evil than somebody whose agents just happen to be floating, glowing people. I do less real harm than them, and somehow I suck more? Are people really that foolish?

Today, I footed the bill for an old woman's rent money for the next 3 months when she was on the verge of an eviction and forced the landlord to get away from gambling long enough to fix her shower. And I paid him for his overdue services.

A young girl from outside the area knocked on wood and asked me to take revenge for her dead brother. I investigated the matter, and I dragged the guilty party out into the street, had him stripped naked, and had my fire spirit etch his crime into his skin.

Before you condemn me, think of this. Would you have batted an eye if I just killed the man in his sleep? No. This would have been a normal gangland killing, and if I just killed him, the fact that it was normal would have somehow made it more acceptable than the admittedly medieval punishment I had for him. Even though I let him live with nothing more than a few lines of text burned lightly into his skin, I assume you would somehow find that less humane than killing him.

And should I have let the old woman get evicted and probably killed? Should I have allowed the landlord to shirk his duties while he hounds his tenants for rent he knows he can't afford?

I am not the lesser of the evils; I am simply the more visible one.

Let's face it. Your only real objection was that I shattered your social order; you are, however, unwilling to admit that your social order was truly evil and oppressive. Gangs beat up children, shoot people who wipe away their graffiti, and landlords force tenants to pay rent they can't afford while "forgetting" constantly to fix things for them, and yet I am evil for solving these problems?

I don't interfere in the normal goings-on in the Barrens, unless you consider mugging the first three passerbys in the morning part of your daily schedule.

>>Shen

--Creature of the Night (Blades) has logged on

Who does this fragger think he is, barging in on us with his mojo, and his burning man, and his do-gooding? I'd like to give a shout-out to anyone who might like to help us kill him. I know there are people who can track people like him, who have no concept of honor or family or solidarity. I can pay you.

>>Creature of the Night (Blades)

I've found the man who just posted, collected all his money, and put it in a pile on the street for anyone passing by to take. For someone who talks about honor as a justification for his history of victimizing the common man, he's remarkably light on his charity. I guess the man really needs his medicinal BTL's.

>>Shen

[FanGirl]

I have already said that the gangers know just as well as you or I do that attacking people randomly is stupid, because it invites revenge from those who are attacked. Therefore, they only attack people for "justifiable" reasons: for not paying protection money, attacking someone in the neighborhood, or encroaching on the gang's turf without authorization. You will notice that Lone Star officers also only attack people for similarly "justifiable" reasons: for not paying taxes, for attacking someone in their neighborhood, and for jandering into restricted areas without authorization. How is the gang any different from Lone Star? The only difference between the street gangs and the private security forces is that the latter are much larger and better-organized than the former. If you really want to serve justice and stop gangs from destroying people's lives, shouldn't you be going after the security corps instead of wasting your time with these small fries?

For the record, though I consider your actions towards the old woman to be very charitable and admirable, but branding and humilating the man was quite frankly cruel and unusual. I don't see why you couldn't have arranged things so that the man would get arrested, charged and convicted for the murder of this woman's brother--that's certainly what I would have done. Quite frankly, you haven't given me a good reason to accept you as our new Dear Leader; I'd gladly take the devils I know over the devil I don't.

>>FanGirl

[emo samurai]

I HATE Lone Star. I don't attack anybody for any of those "justifiable" reasons. I don't ask for taxes, and I don't consider any areas restricted except for private property.

And how do you propose I get this man arrested? I hear you are quite the technomancer; did you just volunteer for evidence-collecting duty?

I don't ask to be your leader; I really just want to help people. I haven't talked to anybody who didn't knock on wood, I haven't harmed anyone who wasn't in the gang or going to mug somebody, and I don't try to draw any more attention to myself than having 6 glowing people wandering the streets 24-7 would.

Yes, I understand Lone Star is evil. But how do you propose I take on Lone Star the way I did the gang? First of all, a lot more good people work for Lone Star than work for the Night Blades. Many of the officers entering the force are idealistic, sincere, and devoted to a quixotic sense of universal justice. This says nothing of their corrupt superiors, but I'll address this later. Talk about gang honor all you want, but in the end, it just comes down to protecting the tribe at the cost of the wellbeing of everybody else. Although understandable and perhaps even rational, the urge to protect oneself or one's support group is by no means honorable or brave; it's just self-interest on a large scale. Anybody can protect the ones he/she "loves," but it takes a truly brave person to protect a stranger, which gangs don't tend to do.

Second of all, Lone Star is infinitely more powerful than this gang could ever be. I could not fill the role that Lone Star fills the way I have filled the role of the gang, and I could not "influence" anybody important in Lone Star because of their comparatively enormous magical resources. Again, your help in this matter would be quite welcome, if you will give it.

>>Shen

[James McMurray]

[emo samurai]

[OOC]This is a PM to James McMurray's character, but anyone can read it. [/ooc]

[ Spoiler ]

I can heal him, but only after a year and a day of good behavior.

I may do as you suggest. The raids on the borders of the Barrens are a nearly daily occurence; they really serve no purpose aside from getting "proof of guilt" for crimes they can't or won't solve.

>>Shen

[James McMurray]

[ Spoiler ]

How magnanimous of you. In that case he's much better off then if you'd goten him areested for the crime. Murder only carries a 366 day penalty, during which you're free to do whatever you want except think the wrong thoughts. How Orwellian of you.

Perhaps you could do doubly well by solving the crimes they're using barrens patsies for. These elite hacker friends and your seemingly endless supply of money to threaten online people that disagree with you could be put to a more noble cause.

Or is it that even your online presence must rule by fear?